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Evolution, Science, Creation

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LewisWildermuth

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Metaphor said:
I have nothing against apes at all. I love them. Their cute, smart, and they show God's handy work all the way. But what I DO hate with the idea that my ancestors were once apes.

This is interesting, why do you hate the idea that you might be related to the apes?

In creationism and evolution, we are both related to the apes, both through a common designer, so in both we are related, but you seem to dislike this idea.

Do you feel yourself superior to everything else God made? Why?
 
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Metaphor

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gluadys said:
Since you are an ape, your parents (and more distant ancestors) must also have been apes. This is true of all humans.

Apparently me and pjlaford have a completely scriptural opinion. Scripture says absolutely nothing about humans being apes. I don't care if science points to either creation or evolution. I stand firm in my belief of my Lord and Savior. I know that the Bible is God's word. And I belive in God. Thus, I belive in the Bible.

-John
 
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gluadys

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Metaphor said:
One thing i've never understood is why their arn't millions of fossils of the "in between" stages. And sorry, that theory talking about how things jumped from animal type A to animal type B is just bogus.

Your second sentence is correct. But there are many transitionals, not only among fossils but among living species. If you haven't heard of them, it is probably because:
1) you haven't really looked for them--once you start researching, you will find plenty
or
2) you have a concept of 'transitional' that deviates significantly from the scientific concept. This may lead you to reject many of the transitional fossils as 'really transitional' on spurious grounds.

Where did the basis for life come from? It sprang out of nothing? Where did nothing come from?

Irrelevant to evolution. Check out 'abiogenesis'.


Anyhow, with my music and ape stuff..

If evolution were true; where is their ONE life forum that has much more advanced form of thinking and beliving? Out of the BILLIONS of life forms their are; we dominate thought, mind and body. their are no other life form that come CLOSE to our ability to think, understand, belive, write, speak, converse, love, care, hate, acknowlage, etc.

-John

It seems that you think of evolution as a scheme of improvement. It is not. There is no reason why a species successfully surviving in its niche should be driven to become more like humans. Even when environmental pressures are promoting new adaptatations, there is no reason why a species should adapt to become more like humans. There can be hundreds of ways to adapt to new conditions which will make them less rather than more like humans.
 
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Metaphor

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LewisWildermuth said:
This is interesting, why do you hate the idea that you might be related to the apes?

In creationism and evolution, we are both related to the apes, both through a common designer, so in both we are related, but you seem to dislike this idea.

Do you feel yourself superior to everything else God made? Why?
Yes, I do belive I am higher then all other life because of this scripture: Ge 1:26: "[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the animals, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."

If I we were once apes, the Bible would say so. I belive that the Bible is the Word of God and the Bible is the way and the TRUTH. That's just my opinion.

-John


[/font]
 
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gluadys

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Metaphor said:
Ok maybe I think evo. is something totally different.

Evolution - Noun
1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.


Evolution says that there was no creator and everything came about naturally, correct?

No it does not say there was no creator. And it does not say everything came about naturally. It says there were natural processes of change in species which led to the emergence of new species.

The first part of your definition is also incorrect. Evolution is not a program which guarantees more complexity or "better" species---whatever that means. The second paragraph is fairly close to a standard scientific definition.

In that case, my first question, "where did the basis for life come from" remains valid.

Since it is not the case that the theory of evolution says there was no creator or that all things happen naturally, the question is now moot. It is also not valid in any discussion of evolution, since evolution does not speculate the origin or basis from which life came.

If it really did take millions of years for animal type A to get to animal type B, a LARGE percentage of our fossils would be the inbetween stages. the few we have are easiely debatable.

In fact 100% of our fossils are in the "inbetween stages" relative to their ancestors and their descendants.
 
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gluadys

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Metaphor said:
Apparently me and pjlaford have a completely scriptural opinion. Scripture says absolutely nothing about humans being apes.

Why would you expect it to, since this was not known at the time the bible was written?

I don't care if science points to either creation or evolution. I stand firm in my belief of my Lord and Savior. I know that the Bible is God's word. And I belive in God. Thus, I belive in the Bible.

-John

Well, then we are on the same page there. We both believe in God, in Christ, in creation and in the truth of the Bible.

What does this have to do with the classification of humans as one of the genera in the family of great apes?
 
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gluadys

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Metaphor said:
Yes, I do belive I am higher then all other life because of this scripture: Ge 1:26: "[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the animals, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."


What does this have to do with the fact that humans are a sub-set of apes? Do you think God cannot make one genus of apes higher than others? in his likeness? a ruler of all his other creatures?

If I we were once apes, the Bible would say so.

Why? Where does the bible claim to be a repository of all mundane knowledge?
 
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TK2005

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Martin Luther saw this a potential problem even in his day. We tend to try and get into God's head, and say that things are not possible. By doing so we set limits on our God. God's word says He created all in six days, why do we try to add to that? To satisfy our own intellect? The great Martin Luther once wrote:

‘When Moses writes that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days, then let this period continue to have been six days, and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day. But, if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days, then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are. For you are to deal with Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written. But since God is speaking, it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to go.’

And I agree wholeheartedly. :)

God bless you all.
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Metaphor said:
Yes, I do belive I am higher then all other life because of this scripture: Ge 1:26: "
Metaphor said:
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the animals, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth."



If I we were once apes, the Bible would say so. I belive that the Bible is the Word of God and the Bible is the way and the TRUTH. That's just my opinion.



-John









So God had no choice but to give us stuff because we looked like Him? If we look like God, do the apes look kind of like God? Does he like them second best? Since dolphins look nothing like us does God like them even less than apes? What about grass, does God dislike grass because it looks nothing like Him?



Interesting, we have free will, but not God? I can choose to love God, but He has no choice but to love me?
 
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Metaphor

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I'm not saying were not related to apes at all. I'm saying God created us and apes seperatly as he says in scripture. I belive the bible is the truth, and in the bible it says He created us...he does NOT say he created apes then apes became us.

And the scripture I posted above states that us humans, are above all animals. Humans differ from animals in this way. We are God's chosen kind. Apes are cool, but Jesus died on the cross to save US and not apes.

-John
 
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LewisWildermuth

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TK2005 said:
And on a side note.......


The whole problem with evolution, at least in my eyes, is not the fact that it says we came from apes. My problem with it is that it requires millions or billions of years which conflicts with God's word.

How so? No where in the Bible does it say how long it took, we only got 6000 years when a monk with too much time on his hands made up the number.
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Metaphor said:
I'm not saying were not related to apes at all. I'm saying God created us and apes seperatly as he says in scripture. I belive the bible is the truth, and in the bible it says He created us...he does NOT say he created apes then apes became us.

And the scripture I posted above states that us humans, are above all animals. Humans differ from animals in this way. We are God's chosen kind. Apes are cool, but Jesus died on the cross to save US and not apes.

-John

Jesus saved us because we were the ones that screwed up, not the apes. If the apes screwed up would God hang them out to dry because they do not look enough like Him?
 
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TK2005

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Okay, I think you need to read Genesis 1 more carefully. Apparently you're missing something.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Sounds pretty final to me. We need to stop putting words into God's mouth.
 
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gluadys

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Metaphor said:
I'm not saying were not related to apes at all. I'm saying God created us and apes seperatly as he says in scripture. I belive the bible is the truth, and in the bible it says He created us...he does NOT say he created apes then apes became us.

And the scripture I posted above states that us humans, are above all animals. Humans differ from animals in this way. We are God's chosen kind. Apes are cool, but Jesus died on the cross to save US and not apes.

-John

Actually he died to save all of creation. That is why Paul speaks of creation groaning in yearning for the revelation of the sons of God. When humanity fell, creation fell with its ruler. When humanity is saved, creation will also experience liberation from the fall.
 
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gluadys

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TK2005 said:
And on a side note.......


The whole problem with evolution, at least in my eyes, is not the fact that it says we came from apes. My problem with it is that it requires millions or billions of years which conflicts with God's word.

It conflicts with the way you choose to read scripture. If it is true (and it is) it cannot conflict with God's Word, since God's Word made it so.
 
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LewisWildermuth

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TK2005 said:
Okay, I think you need to read Genesis 1 more carefully. Apparently you're missing something.



Sounds pretty final to me. We need to stop putting words into God's mouth.

To you maybe, and yes, we need to stop putting words in God's mouth, let us listen to both His word and His actions (creation) and make up our minds and not be blinded by only looking at one and not the other.
 
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Metaphor

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gluadys said:
Actually he died to save all of creation. That is why Paul speaks of creation groaning in yearning for the revelation of the sons of God. When humanity fell, creation fell with its ruler. When humanity is saved, creation will also experience liberation from the fall.
Ok now your straying from my point. My point remains clear and scripturally supported. Man was created seperatly from apes.

Man were never apes, and apes did not become men. They were created separately.

-John
 
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