evolution question

[Chriliman]

Abiogenesis does not mean first life. It means life from non-life. The Genesis 1 account is life from non-life.

Life can only come from non-life, if there was no life there before the emerging life.

God, who is alive, was there creating life. Make sense?

 

[Chriliman]

I thought Jesus was the son of God.

Not to mention:

Mark 1:11
And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Are you claiming Christianity is wrong in claiming Jesus was a man who is also God?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It seems to me that if there is no proof that its true then its time to move on to another theory until proof arises.

What other testable hypotheses are there?

 

[RickG]

Life can only come from non-life, if there was no life there before the emerging life.

God, who is alive, was there creating life. Make sense?

Genesis 1:

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Dry land Earth (non-life)
Let the Earth bring forth (life)

Life from non-life.

 

[RickG]

Are you claiming Christianity is wrong in claiming Jesus was a man who is also God?

Are you saying scripture is wrong? Do I need to cite scripture where Jesus talks about his father in heaven, or that he sits at the right hand of God?

 

[Chriliman]

Are you saying scripture is wrong? Do I need to cite scripture where Jesus talks about his father in heaven, or that he sits at the right hand of God?

All I'm saying is that life as we know it would not exist if it weren't for God who is alive.

God created man from the dust of the earth. Did the dust itself create life or did God?

 

[Loudmouth]

All I'm saying is that life as we know it would not exist if it weren't for God who is alive.

God created man from the dust of the earth. Did the dust itself create life or did God?

When Pasteur ran his experiments, did he see a man appear from dust? If not, does that disprove the Bible?

 

[Chriliman]

Are you saying scripture is wrong? Do I need to cite scripture where Jesus talks about his father in heaven, or that he sits at the right hand of God?

Could you be interpreting Genesis slightly wrong?

 

[Loudmouth]

Could you be interpreting Genesis slightly wrong?

Did Pasteur see God creating any life during his experiments? If not, would this disprove the claim that God created life?

 

[RickG]

All I'm saying is that life as we know it would not exist if it weren't for God who is alive.

God created man from the dust of the earth. Did the dust itself create life or did God?

You do realize don't you, that if we keep this discussion up this thread could be closed? Apologetics are forbidden in the discussion and debate forums. How about we get back to science. Okie dokiey?

 

[RickG]

Could you be interpreting Genesis slightly wrong?

I am not a literalist.

 

[Chriliman]

I am not a literalist.

Do you claim to be Christian? I'm on my phone I cant see your faith claim.

 

[Chriliman]

You do realize don't you, that if we keep this discussion up this thread could be closed? Apologetics are forbidden in the discussion and debate forums. How about we get back to science. Okie dokiey?

Sounds good, thanks for your time

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

Never once in all this academic pedigree did you mention that you were a PhD in microbiology.

You ask how I am able to critically read

Fabich, A. J., Leatham, M. P., Grissom, J. E., Wiley, G., Lai, H., Najar, F., ... & Conway, T. (2011). Genotype and phenotypes of an intestine-adapted Escherichia coli K-12 mutant selected by animal passage for superior colonization. Infection and immunity, 79(6), 2430-2439.

Your response is predictably weak. I in fact found the paper quite reasonable. Lead author Andrew J. Fabich and his colleagues acknowledged that there was a spontaneous mutation that was superior to native E. coli. They wrote, "The results show that intestine-adapted E. coli MG1655* is more fit than the wild type for intestinal colonization, because loss of FlhD results in elevated expression of genes involved in carbon and energy metabolism, resulting in more efficient carbon source utilization and a higher intestinal population. Hence, mutations that enhance metabolic efficiency confer a colonization advantage."

That is a very good example of evolution at the genetic level. I am not critical of their result as published. I totally accept it. It demonstrated a key feature of evolution.

So, since you have so little reading ability I feel justified in asking what "qualifications" you pretend enable you to reject the work of thousands of scientists?

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

I challenge you to do your research on peer-review.

I have been "peer-reviewed" and I have been a "Peer reviewer."

Like democracy, it is deeply flawed and still the best method we have for government, and the advancement of science.

Have you ever published in a professionally reviewed journal, or worked on a professional scientific research project?

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

I'll be honest, I'm not an expert on abiogenesis. Is it basically that life was spontaneously created from non-life?

Not in the sense that it was a rapid emergence of sophisticated organisms. If you would like a fairly easy introduction, I suggest;

Deamer, David W.
2011 “First Life: Discovering the Connections between Stars, Cells, and How Life Began” University of California Press

 

[RickG]

Do you claim to be Christian? I'm on my phone I cant see your faith claim.

Presbyterian

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

My point is that they are hoping and believing in something that has no proof.

Manfred Schidlowski, Peter W. U. Appel, Rudolf Eichmann and Christian E. Junge
1979 "Carbon isotope geochemistry of the 3.7 × 109-yr-old Isua sediments, West Greenland: implications for the Archaean carbon and oxygen cycles" Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 43, 189-199

Rosing, Minik T. and Robert Frei
2004 "U-rich Archaean sea-floor sediments from Greenland – indications of >3700 Ma oxygenic photosynthesis" Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 217 237-244 (online 6 December 03)


It happened.

 

[Dr GS Hurd]

For me it just seems logically impossible for life to spontaneously arise from inorganic material and not be able to actively observe this phenomena again at any point in time since life began.

Charles R. Darwin, in a 1871 letter to the botanist Joseph Hooker wrote,

"It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are present, which could ever have been present. But if (and Oh! what a big if!) we could conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter would be instantly devoured or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed. "

 

[Chriliman]

Did Pasteur see God creating any life during his experiments? If not, would this disprove the claim that God created life?

If he did, would you believe him?

Manfred Schidlowski, Peter W. U. Appel, Rudolf Eichmann and Christian E. Junge
1979 "Carbon isotope geochemistry of the 3.7 × 109-yr-old Isua sediments, West Greenland: implications for the Archaean carbon and oxygen cycles" Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 43, 189-199

Rosing, Minik T. and Robert Frei
2004 "U-rich Archaean sea-floor sediments from Greenland – indications of >3700 Ma oxygenic photosynthesis" Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 217 237-244 (online 6 December 03)


It happened.

I assume all this means they observed life emerge from non-life? Did they get it on video by chance?