evolution question

[Chriliman]

We could observe life being spontaneously produced by natural processes, if the conditions are right and if we watch long enough. The tough part is figuring out the conditions that are needed.

Okay, but how long are we willing to try and figure out the conditions and how long are we willing to watch for something that might not even be a reality? Who gets to make the call that it's time stop hoping abiogenesis is true? Or is main stream science believing abiogenesis is true without proof? It seems to me that if there is no proof that its true then its time to move on to another theory until proof arises. However, in this case we even have proof that suggests abiogenesis is false, yet people still want to believe in it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Okay, but how long are we willing to try and figure out the conditions and how long are we willing to watch for something that might not even be a reality?

Depends on each generation of scientists.

Who gets to make the call that it's time stop hoping abiogenesis is true?

The people holding the purse strings. The NIH and NSF are the two big tax funded granting foundations in the US. I only know about a little corner of NIH funding, so I am not sure how the other areas of science are administered. Long story short, as long as granting organizations can be convinced to give money for the research somewhere in the world the research will continue to be done.

Or is main stream science believing abiogenesis is true without proof?

If you are doing research on abiogenesis you have to believe that it is at least a possibility. However, no one is assuming it is true beyond any doubt. If we thought such a thing we wouldn't be doing research on it.

It seems to me that if there is no proof that its true then its time to move on to another theory until proof arises.

How do you find proof for abiogenesis if you don't do the research?

However, in this case we even have proof that suggests abiogenesis is false, yet people still want to believe.

What proof is that?

 

[Chriliman]

How do you find proof for abiogenesis if you don't do the research?

My point is that they are hoping and believing in something that has no proof. Seems similar to people hoping and believing in God without proof, except many claim to have received personal evidence of God.

What proof is that?

Some would look at what Pasteur did and believe it is proof that abiogenesis is false. Only those who want to believe in abiogenesis would disregard that proof.

 

[Loudmouth]

My point is that they are hoping and believing in something that has no proof.

They are doing research to find the proof. That's the entire reason for doing science. Do you think that scientists only do research on things that have already been proven?

Seems similar to people hoping and believing in God without proof, except many claim to have received personal evidence of God.

Can you point to people doing scientific research trying to prove that God exists? If you can't, then the comparison does not hold up.

Some would look at what Pasteur did and believe it is proof that abiogenesis is false.

Pasteur let a small amount of broth sit around for a few weeks. How in the world would that disprove abiogenesis?

 

[Chriliman]

They are doing research to find the proof. That's the entire reason for doing science. Do you think that scientists only do research on things that have already been proven?

I agree. I don't think scientists only do research on things that have been proven. What this should show is that all people believe in things that they want to be true. You want science to lead you to some kind of truth, so you put your faith in science.

Can you point to people doing scientific research trying to prove that God exists? If you can't, then the comparison does not hold up.

God is possible, why not try to prove He exists? However, when it comes to understanding God one must realize that only God can prove His existence to any individual.

Pasteur let a small amount of broth sit around for a few weeks. How in the world would that disprove abiogenesis?

I have no qualms with you believing abiogenesis is still possible.

For me it just seems logically impossible for life to spontaneously arise from inorganic material and not be able to actively observe this phenomena again at any point in time since life began.

 

[Loudmouth]

I agree. I don't think scientists only do research on things that have been proven. What this should show is that all people believe in things that they want to be true. You want science to lead you to some kind of truth, so you put your faith in science.

I look at the track record of science and realize it is the best tool we have for discovering how the universe works.

God is possible, why not try to prove He exists?

You tell me. Why don't we see any scientific research projects trying to find proof of God?

For me it just seems logically impossible for life to spontaneously arise from inorganic material and not be able to actively observe this phenomena again at any point in time since life began.

Surely you can understand why scientists don't scrap entire research projects based on what some random guy on the interwebs can or can't believe.

 

[Chriliman]

I look at the track record of science and realize it is the best tool we have for discovering how the universe works.

Anything developed my fallible humans is guaranteed to fail. Science fails quite often, but learns from it's mistakes. I suppose you could view science as one huge fallible human brain.

You tell me. Why don't we see any scientific research projects trying to find proof of God?

It's either God is trying to make it obvious, but He doesn't want to force anyone to believe in Him or He doesn't exist.

Surely you can understand why scientists don't scrap entire research projects based on what some random guy on the interwebs can or can't believe.

I completely understand that for sure.

 

[Loudmouth]

Anything developed my fallible humans is guaranteed to fail. Science fails quite often, but learns from it's mistakes. I suppose you could view science as one huge fallible human brain.

And yet you depend on that science every minute of every day. When you get sick, you go to science for the cure.

It's either God is trying to make it obvious, but He doesn't want to force anyone to believe in Him or He doesn't exist.

Right. That's why my parents hid from me my whole life. They didn't want to force me to believe in their existence.

:facepalm:

 

[RickG]

Okay, but how long are we willing to try and figure out the conditions and how long are we willing to watch for something that might not even be a reality? Who gets to make the call that it's time stop hoping abiogenesis is true? Or is main stream science believing abiogenesis is true without proof? It seems to me that if there is no proof that its true then its time to move on to another theory until proof arises. However, in this case we even have proof that suggests abiogenesis is false, yet people still want to believe in it.

Whether by natural processes or God. First life is abiogenesis, life from non-life.

 

[Chriliman]

And yet you depend on that science every minute of every day. When you get sick, you go to science for the cure.



Right. That's why my parents hid from me my whole life. They didn't want to force me to believe in their existence.

:facepalm:

Logically, God would have a different affect on your reality than your parents do. Unless you think your parents are gods?

 

[Loudmouth]

Logically, God would have a different affect on your reality than your parents do. Unless you think your parents are gods?

Putting "logically" in front of something you just made up does not make it logical.

 

[Chriliman]

Whether by natural processes or God. First life is abiogenesis, life from non-life.

I already explained that God is alive. He created life with His power which is alive. So life with a beginning from an eternally alive being.

 

[Chriliman]

Putting "logically" in front of something you just made up does not make it logical.

Do you think God should just be a normal human that you can touch and feel? Or do you have a different idea of what God should be in your mind? Or does God not exist in your mind?

 

[Loudmouth]

Do you think God should just be a normal human that you can touch and feel? Or do you have a different idea of what God should be in your mind? Or does God not exist in your mind?

The concept that we shouldn't be forced to believe in something by the mere fact of seeing that it exists is perhaps the most illogical argument I have ever heard. Your parents created you. They also want you to live your life by certain rules and be a good person. To achieve this plan, did they hide their existence from you for your entire life? Do you see how silly it sounds?

 

[Chriliman]

The concept that we shouldn't be forced to believe in something by the mere fact of seeing that it exists is perhaps the most illogical argument I have ever heard. Your parents created you. They also want you to live your life by certain rules and be a good person. To achieve this plan, did they hide their existence from you for your entire life? Do you see how silly it sounds?

All this tells me is that you expect God to be a human like you are. Which is illogical.

 

[RickG]

I already explained that God is alive. He created life with His power which is alive. So life with a beginning from an eternally alive being.

Abiogenesis does not mean first life. It means life from non-life. The Genesis 1 account is life from non-life.

 

[Chriliman]

All this tells me is that you expect God to be a human like you are. Which is illogical.

Although we have an example of God taking the form of a human. His name is Jesus. Does this make it easier to believe in God?

 

[Loudmouth]

All this tells me is that you expect God to be a human like you are. Which is illogical.

Weren't we created in God's image?

 

[Loudmouth]

Although we have an example of God taking the form of a human. His name is Jesus. Does this make it easier to believe in God?

So God wouldn't be like a human, except when God does become a human?

Can you pick one?

 

[RickG]

Although we have an example of God taking the form of a human. His name is Jesus. Does this make it easier to believe in God?

I thought Jesus was the son of God.

Weren't we created in God's image?

Not to mention:

Mark 1:11
And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.