Evolution question

Ymeg · Apr 14, 2007

Simple questions.

Suppose evolution is fact. God wants as many saved as possible, right? If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

to yec - Can you give me any philosophical reasoning to why evolution is incompatible with your religion?

CShephard53 · Apr 14, 2007

Everyone gets saved the same way- by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. What about before He lived? Faith that there would be a savior coming to restore- trusting God.

For the record, evolution is not a fact, it is a theory. Why would it be incompatable with Christianity? It would be incompatable because in the beginning God created man, and man multiplied. There were humans, not apelike creatures or whatever else. And it says God created, not that God formed, unless you count it being 'from the dust of the earth', in which case God still isn't transforming creatures already there, He's forming life from things that do not have life.

That's the simple answer.

Key · Apr 14, 2007

Ymeg said:
Simple questions.

Suppose evolution is fact. God wants as many saved as possible, right?

Maybe....

If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

You mean the ones that lived before God established his Law for Humanity?

God Bless

Key.

ebia · Apr 14, 2007

Ymeg said:
Simple questions.

Suppose evolution is fact.

Yes.

God wants as many saved as possible, right?

Yes.

If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

We aren't really told.

to yec - Can you give me any philosophical reasoning to why evolution is incompatible with your religion?

Not applicable - they aren't incompatible.

Ymeg · Apr 14, 2007

jawsmetroid:

Everyone gets saved the same way- by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. What about before He lived? Faith that there would be a savior coming to restore- trusting God.

(This sentence is supposing the world is old and evolution is true. Don't ignore me to state this.)
So the first humans would have been able to comprehend that? You're honestly saying that?

Key:

You mean the ones that lived before God established his Law for Humanity?

Please inform me of this.

ebia:

We aren't really told.

Why would a god want some to be saved and others to not get the chance? It seems foolish, defending this, however people can debate anything.

Key · Apr 14, 2007

Ymeg said:
Key:

Please inform me of this

Moses wrote the Leviticus Law, that was the Law of Clean and Unclean.

God Bless

Key

ebia · Apr 14, 2007

Ymeg said:
ebia:
Why would a god want some to be saved and others to not get the chance?

He wouldn't. But the bible is extremely vague about how Jesus death and ressurrection affects those who died before 33 AD (or whenever) so any detailed answer is speculation. I take it on trust that he has included them in his plans, but I don't have (or need) the details.

Ymeg · Apr 14, 2007

Well, I'm going to help us figure this out. 1. They are rotting in hell; unfair at best. Not given a choice. 2. Automatically taken to heaven. Free will controversy.

ebia · Apr 14, 2007

Ymeg said:
Well, I'm going to help us figure this out. 1. They are rotting in hell; unfair at best. Not given a choice. 2. Automatically taken to heaven. Free will controversy.

Those are not the only possibilities.

childofGod31 · Apr 15, 2007

I believe people before Christ will get their chance. Christ preached to them (in the spirit) while his body was in the grave. People also lived by the natural law, perhaps they will be judged by whether they did right or wrong based on that.

1PE 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

HEB 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance - now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

ROM 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Re: evolution

Evolution is a theory, was never really proven and most honest scientists don't believe in it anymore. They have found now that primitive animals' bones were found in the same layer as more complex animals, which means they co-existed (and not evolved from each other). The "missing links" are still missing. The ones they claim to have, were based on an arm or on a set of teeth. The bones they found to fill in the rest of the body, could have been from different animals, but they put them together and said it was a human...so there is no proof...

Evolution claims first humans were dumb (like monkeys) and primitive.

Christians believe that first human that was created by God was very smart and knew things because he talked with God. Adam named all the animals after all. Then soonafter, a few generations and they built a city. They were farmers, so they didn't have much to work with. But with time...

Then human kind was destroyed by the flood, so people started with being farmers all over again...

Evolution claims that earth is very old. But creation suggests that the earth is pretty new. Also, some evidence suggests that the earth is pretty new.

tapero · Apr 15, 2007

Ymeg said:
Simple questions.

Suppose evolution is fact. God wants as many saved as possible, right? If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

to yec - Can you give me any philosophical reasoning to why evolution is incompatible with your religion?

Hi, Sorry can't indulge you on evolution. God created man in the garden.

Evolution in regards that we were some other form or animal, is incompatible with my faith, because the bible clearly states how we were created, along with the rest of creation in the book of Genesis.

However, there is an evolution forum on the site where this might be better answered for you.

Blessings,
tapero

Bondman · Apr 15, 2007

Ymeg said:
Well, I'm going to help us figure this out. 1. They are rotting in hell; unfair at best. Not given a choice. 2. Automatically taken to heaven. Free will controversy.

(My apologies for this getting off-topic.)

Neither is necessarily true, Ymeg. Jesus sacrifice is not time-centered, i.e., His sacrifice for sin covers everyone who has ever lived, before or after the Cross, and including those who have never heard of Him.

Thus those before Christ may end up in hell or in heaven - same as today. The major difference for you and all others on this forum is that you can hear the Good News of the Gospel in full-colour and in completeness - with all the HELP you could want - totally enough for you to be absolutely certain you will spend eternity with God in heaven!

God LOVES YOU completely and absolutely. Jesus paid the full price of your sin on the Cross. The decision whether to keep rebelling against God, or coming to Jesus and accepting FULL forgiveness for your rebellion and sin is entirely yours. But please do make sure you get it right!

With Christian love and blessings from us both!

- Bondman (ministering the Good News of the Gospel)

_________________

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

HypnoToad · Apr 15, 2007

Ymeg said:
Well, I'm going to help us figure this out. 1. They are rotting in hell; unfair at best. Not given a choice. 2. Automatically taken to heaven. Free will controversy.

Or 3. they had the option of following the old covenant, just as we have the option of following the new covenant.

Stinker · Apr 15, 2007

Ymeg said:
Simple questions.

Suppose evolution is fact. God wants as many saved as possible, right? If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

to yec - Can you give me any philosophical reasoning to why evolution is incompatible with your religion?

Those primates that had not evolved to the point where they would possess the attributes of a human, would not have been 'saved' or 'lost' .

Digit · Apr 16, 2007

Ymeg said:
Simple questions.

This should be good.

Ymeg said:
Suppose evolution is fact. God wants as many saved as possible, right?

God does want us all to live through Him, yes.

Ymeg said:
If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

There are no earlier than Adam and Eve, and God was present then, so the same way as we are saved now.

Ymeg said:
to yec - Can you give me any philosophical reasoning to why evolution is incompatible with your religion?

I know this isn't addressed to me, but it depends which stance you take on evolution. That we evolved from goo, of course that totally contradicts the Bible. If we evolved from a common ancestor, then it's feasible that we evolved from the humans who were created in Eden. However this is unlikely, as evolutions need a timeline of billions of years in order to create a likely chance than so many numerous and small mutations occur and bred into subsequent generations.

So really, what you are asking is, "Suppose something that contradicts Christianity is true, how would Christianity work then?" Quite simply put, it wouldn't. As the two are mutually exclusive.

Digit

Digit · Apr 16, 2007

We aren't going to see eye to eye on this, so save yourself the bother. This thread isn't about evolution or creation or goo or common ancestors. It's about what if a thing existed that completely contradicts Christian beliefs. In Christian eyes, it cannot. Plain and simple.

Actually the original poster was right, it is a simple question afterall.

Digit

United · Apr 16, 2007

Ymeg said:
Simple questions.

Suppose evolution is fact. God wants as many saved as possible, right? If this is true how would the very early humans, hundreds of thousand of years ago, been saved?

to yec - Can you give me any philosophical reasoning to why evolution is incompatible with your religion?

Hi Ymeg,

Firstly, I support theistic evolution - but I believe God "breathed" life and spirit into man in the Garden of Eden. Before that, "man" would be no different to animals so the question isn't relevant. In any case however, God looks at the heart of a person. If they haven't heard about God, they are not necessarily sent to heaven or hell - only God can look inside someones heart & determine whether they belong to Him.

Steve

huldah153 · Apr 16, 2007

Bondman · Apr 16, 2007

Digit said:
Well you can be bothered, that's the great thing about free will. You are free, to do as you wish and feel as you wish.

I could take your post and substitute all the pro evolution words for pro Creation words and have something sounding just the same, and entirely as unprovable. Hence why I said, don't bother wasting your time as you and I will not see eye to eye on this, and for every Christian who says, "Goo to man! Pfft..." there are a dozen non-believers who say, "Poof! A monkey! Hahaha."

So really, considering this thread isnt' even about evolution or not, lets address the issue the OP brought up. Could primitive man be saved. Yes of course, as there was no man more 'primitive' than Adam, and at that stage God was present. Can evolution merge with Christianity, depends on how you interpret the Bible. For me, no.

That's my final word on a matter flogged to death.

Sorry.
Digit

Yes, indeed.

And as someone who's been alive long enough to watch evolution's journey through half a century and being now no closer to showing it's has any validity whatsoever, I'm happy to stick with the Bible record of Creation. Not cos I'm 'stuck' on the Bible, but because evolution just doesn't have the goods, and never will.

Ymeg - Jesus sacrifice covers every man woman child ever created by God. ALL can be saved if they wish. ALL have the choice to accept Jesus and be saved from hell's punishment.

So it's true. It IS simple!

Blessings!

- Bondman (ministering the Good News of the Gospel)

_________________

Rest in the LORD and in HIS strength alone!

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings as eagles;
they shall run, and not be weary;
they shall walk, and not faint.

Merlin · Apr 16, 2007

They would be saved by trusting in God and the future act of Jesus.

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