Evolution is NOT atheism

[lucaspa]

We have to say this so often, I thought it also deserved to be posted again. And I have posted the Darwin quotes several times, so here they are in an opening post so people can see that evolution was NEVER atheism. And is not atheism now.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved." C. Darwin, On the Origin of Species, pg 450.

Also: "To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual." pg. 449.

You can't very well speak of "the Creator" and be atheistic.

 

[akscience]

Nobody ever said that evolution is atheism, well at least i dont say it is, but theres a fine line between believing the bible as the word of God. It says pretty plainly that God made humans, not evolved them. And theres plently of scientific evidence to back it up, its just not mainstream or taught in the schools as a second opinion. I think people on this site know a bit about evolution, science, ect, but unfortantly most dont and never question it.

 

[wblastyn]

Nobody ever said that evolution is atheism, well at least i dont say it is, but theres a fine line between believing the bible as the word of God. It says pretty plainly that God made humans, not evolved them. And theres plently of scientific evidence to back it up, its just not mainstream or taught in the schools as a second opinion. I think people on this site know a bit about evolution, science, ect, but unfortantly most dont and never question it.

A lot of creationists assume evolution=atheism, you see it here all the time.

The Bible also says "plainly" that fire-breathing sea serpents exist, there's a storehouse in the sky holding rain and water and that the Emperor taxed "all the world", despite the fact that "all the world" had not been discovered yet.

 

[Arikay]

Yeah, quite often Evolution is mistaken for Atheism.

What scientific evidence is there that god made humans and didnt evolve them?

 

[Cantuar]

This seems like a good place to add my quote from the Bishop of Oxford, especially since the original link doesn't work any more:

"First, the theory of evolution, far from undermining faith, deepens it.* This was quickly seen by Frederick Temple, later Archbishop of Canterbury, who said that God doesn't just make the world, he does something even more wonderful, he makes the world make itself.* God has given creation a real independence and the miraculous fact is that working in relation to this independent life God has, as it were, woven creation from the bottom upwards: with matter giving rise to life and life giving rise to conscious reflective existence in the likes of you and me.* The fact that the universe probably began about 12 billion years ago with life beginning to evolve about 3 billion years ago simply underlines the extraordinary detailed, persistent, patience of the divine creator spirit."

http://www.oxford.anglican.org/tftd.php?id=178

 

[akscience]

Great article here, please read.

http://www.geocities.com/lvoegtli/godexists.htm

 

[akscience]

Until i read in the bible (THE WORD OF GOD) that humans evolved from a single cell, i wont believe, plus theres plently of supporting scientific evidence to back up intelligent design, read post above

 

[Arikay]

There is no "word of god" that computers existed. So I guess they dont. No word of god about cars either.
There is a lot of word of god about a possible flat earth though.

The article came to a faulty conclusion because Complexity does Not need an inteligent designer. Evolution does just fine at "designing"

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

Until i read in the bible (THE WORD OF GOD) that humans evolved from a single cell, i wont believe,

Why then, dont you also say you dont beleive in other things that are not mentioned in the bible.

Until i read in the bible that DNA exists, I wont beleive

 

[akscience]

ReUsAble, dude, get real. The bible doesn't spoon feed you. What it does say is that God created Man, not evovled them. I'm shocked that you actually took the 30 seconds time to actually respond to such an asburb notion

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

ReUsAble, dude, get real. The bible doesn't spoon feed you. What it does say is that God created Man, not evovled them. I'm shocked that you actually took the 30 seconds time to actually respond to such an asburb notion

God also said its ok to beat slaves as long as they recover in a few days, because they are your property

 

[Arikay]

What if god did create man, and he used evolution to do it?

 

[akscience]

Then your underestimating God's power. So many people believe in God, and thats about it, they say, my good deeds are going to get me into heaven. Let's say that were true (it isnt). If you honestly believe God is God, first you wouldnt underestimate Him in ANYTHING, and two, you would praise the very man that gave you life. A lot of people think God exsists but doesnt actively partipates. Why, i dont know, why would God be in exsistance, make Man, and do nothing. Let's say the bible is the Word of God (it is) and it says in the first couple sentences, "I MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" also man, then yea, i believe it. It's not far out there, its not really an issue of Faith, its an issue of truely believing God exsist's.

 

[Arikay]

Maybe you are underestimating god?

I mean, I could make the statement, "I created a picture" but it doesnt mean I snapped it into existance.
The bible is not a science book, and current science was way above the heads of the people of the time. So what if god made the statement, to let them know he did it, but didnt go into how, because they wouldnt understand, and that wasnt the point of the bible.

I mean, the bible strongly suggests the earth was flat. But its not. But whether it is or not, doesnt really matter to the point of the bible.

 

[akscience]

Arikay, i agree, the bible isnt a science book, BUT when it refences science it's always correct, man just hasnt caught up with it yet. And you are like the third person to tell me the bible said the earth was flat. I could spit off verses to tell you your not correct. I understand the bible used "four corners of the earth, ect (north, south, east, west), not a box or square" yet you must understand the bible is taken literally but is used in a language not of this day in age. Theres pently of words that Hebrews could have used, yet the bible always talks about the circle of the earth, and it being light and day at 2 different places at the time time, being like the sun and moon, all these references indicate a circle earth

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

Then your underestimating God's power. So many people believe in God, and thats about it, they say, my good deeds are going to get me into heaven. Let's say that were true (it isnt). If you honestly believe God is God, first you wouldnt underestimate Him in ANYTHING, .

How is science underestimating Gods power?

When you think that God just poofed everything into existence, your taking the creative element out of Nature and Creation and ultimatly God himself

...The most imaginitive human ideas about the nature of matter never came close to the discoverys that the scientific method has unearthed. Not in anybodies wildest imagination could they have expected to find things like quantum physics or relativity or evolution or DNA.

You talk about the word of God haveing final athority....Do you beleive that God spoke and the universe was created? Would that not suggest that Physical Nature itself can be considered the Word of God as well?

 

[akscience]

The path at which God created everything isn't the creative element, as you said it. It's the final result of what He created. He could have spoken it into exsistance or took many many years, neither matters b.c the final product is still the same. God is creative no matter what steps He took, little or small to us as man

 

[Arikay]

Your right, Circle, as in 2d Flat. Not sphere.

Like in Isa 40:22, The hebrew word for circle means circle or circuit. The bible uses a different word to mean circle or ball, that is never used to explain the earth. Isiah goes on to say that heaven is spread over it like a tent. This matches well with the drawing of the earth at the time. A flat earth with a buble of heaven spread over it.
We can compare this with the verse (sorry dont know that one off the top of my head) that suggests one can (I believe Jesus) sit apon a mountain and see all the empires of the world.
Very hard to do with a sphere.

As you mentioned, the bible isnt a science book, and so we probably shouldnt use it as one.

Arikay, i agree, the bible isnt a science book, BUT when it refences science it's always correct, man just hasnt caught up with it yet. And you are like the third person to tell me the bible said the earth was flat. I could spit off verses to tell you your not correct. I understand the bible used "four corners of the earth, ect (north, south, east, west), not a box or square" yet you must understand the bible is taken literally but is used in a language not of this day in age. Theres pently of words that Hebrews could have used, yet the bible always talks about the circle of the earth, and it being light and day at 2 different places at the time time, being like the sun and moon, all these references indicate a circle earth

 

[troodon]

Then your underestimating God's power.

I, (personally) like to think of God as having enough patience to wait ~13 billion years for all of us (me included :o ) to come along. I think it serves as a reminder as to how much love and patience he shows us. Then again, I warp and distort scripture (according to some) so what do I know?

So many people believe in God, and thats about it, they say, my good deeds are going to get me into heaven.

I fail to see the relevance of this point to a discussion of evolution not being atheism unless you are trying to say that theistic evolutionists are some sort of "fake" Christian. I hope that's not your point.

If you honestly believe God is God, first you wouldnt underestimate Him in ANYTHING, and two, you would praise the very man that gave you life.

Firstly, I (again personally) do not underestimate God in any way. As far as I know God did create the earth last Monday at 8:16 AM. I wouldn't put it passed an all powerful being such as the Big Man. However, I choose to dismiss those possibilities, not because I don't think Him capable of doing them, but because I don't think He would mislead all of humanity into thinking the earth was not a sparse ~8 days old. I don't think God would dupe me and the rest of the earth's population like that. Hence, I interpret Genesis to be symbolic, teaching many spiritual and moral truths that humanity just plain wouldn't get if God had detailed evolution to the ancient Hebrews.

A lot of people think God exsists but doesnt actively partipates. Why, i dont know, why would God be in exsistance, make Man, and do nothing.

We should ask Him someday

Let's say the bible is the Word of God (it is) and it says in the first couple sentences, "I MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" also man, then yea, i believe it.

Like wblastyn said in post #3, the Bible says a lot of things that, when you get right down to it, are not literally true. The Bible says, clearly, that the mustard seed is the smallest (least) of all seeds. When faced with extra-biblical evidence telling me that it is not the smallest seed, I concede the fact that the choice of words in that passage, a superlative mind you, was used to prove a spiritual point. Likewise, when the Bible says that man was formed from the dust of the ground some 6,000 years ago and the earth tells me differently I concede the fact that the wording of the passage was used to prove a theological point, that we are all the result of God's creation and that we owe all existance to Him.

It's not far out there, its not really an issue of Faith, its an issue of truely believing God exsist's.

Aside from the fact that believing God exists is an issue of faith, and aside from the fact that this God may not be the Judeo-Christian variety, it is still not a question of believing in the Christian God. It is a question of (IMO) refusing to give up interpretations of certain Biblical passages when faced with extra-biblical evidence pointing against this interpretation.

 

[akscience]

But when it refrences science, its always accurate. As for the bible telling the earth is flat or circluar, we can agree to disagree. The bible mentions or hints at a round earth more than a handful of times. You might be correct about the hebrew meaning of circle meaning ball, ill check it out, but honestly, my opinion is made, theres SO many other verses or hints and hebrew words to use in its place to mean circle or flat.