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Evolution Is A False Religion

VCViking

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Great video by John MacArthur.

"There is a kind of science out there—evolutionary science—masquerading as a reliable, objective guide to the truth. But strip away the white lab coat, turn the microscope around, and make the subject the object of your study. Guess what youll find? Its just another false prophet proclaiming his false religion, evolution."

"Heres the question for discussion: If a Christian wouldnt try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to evolutionary theories about origins?" - John MacArthur


YouTube - Evolution Is False Religion
 

Sketcher

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"Heres the question for discussion: If a Christian wouldnt try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to evolutionary theories about origins?" - John MacArthur
I would counter - If a Christian wouldn't try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to the heliocentric model? My point is, you can take that too far.

Now, I'm a creationist - theistic evolution is not satisfactory, and neither is atheism - but we need to be honest about what makes a good argument and what doesn't.
 
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desmalia

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I would counter - If a Christian wouldn't try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to the heliocentric model? My point is, you can take that too far.

Now, I'm a creationist - theistic evolution is not satisfactory, and neither is atheism - but we need to be honest about what makes a good argument and what doesn't.

Ya. As much as I love MacArthur I've not been terribly impressed with what I've heard him say on evolution so far in the most recent series he's doing. R.C. Sproul gives a much better apologetic, IMHO.

I have a friend who is a biology professor at a prominent "Christian" university (I put the word Christian in quotes because they have gone quite secular in a number of areas). This fellow teaches theistic evolution as if his life depended on it. He's seriously angry at the church for rejecting it, to a point that I think he considers it his mission in life to convert people to believing in theistic evolution in the church. I see his comments on Facebook all the time and everything revolves around that, with regular jabs us like we "anti-evolutionists" are uneducated, brainwashed, we carry our pitchforks, and none of us have ever dealt honestly with Darwin. :doh:

So I'm always looking for a good apologetic defense specifically aimed at theistic evolution proponents. Sadly I know Mac's latest series won't do the job, and if anything will just add more fuel to his fire. I think perhaps one of the keys is zeroing in on the Genesis account and what that means when you decide it's myth or allegory instead of actual history. I know that I can't debate science with this guy. He's a scientist and highly respected in his field. And science is definitely not a strong point for me, lol. What really worries me is seeing how the science seems to be his whole life. Mac's certainly right about it being a religion for many. I suspect it is for my friend, even while he sits in a church pew every Sunday.
 
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BAFRIEND

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"Heres the question for discussion: If a Christian wouldnt try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to evolutionary theories about origins?" - John MacArthur

you could say that God created the entire planet, all animals, humans, dinosaur bones included and our memories- say, 5 seconds ago

but would that not mean that God is deceiving us ?

one of the tenents of evolution is randomness- so true you cannot state that the ToE is compatable with Christianity

however, you cannot state either that God did not choose to evolve creation in a way that is supported by scientific evidence
 
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shinbits

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"Heres the question for discussion: If a Christian wouldnt try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to evolutionary theories about origins?" - John MacArthur


YouTube - Evolution Is False Religion
Combining one religion to another, isn't comparable to combining one scientific theory, with another scientific theory, reached the same way, through the same scientific methods.

And at the very least, scientists overwhelmingly agree on evolution, verses religions which only one specific group believes (and even within that specific group, there are people who believe different things about their religion).
 
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desmalia

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Combining one religion to another, isn't comparable to combining one scientific theory, with another scientific theory, reached the same way, through the same scientific methods.
It is when scientific theory is taken on faith the way we see people do with the ToE. There's a whole lot more philosophy and religion being promoted in the classrooms in relation to evolution than any actual scientific evidence.


And at the very least, scientists overwhelmingly agree on evolution, verses religions which only one specific group believes (and even within that specific group, there are people who believe different things about their religion).
Not true. There are many scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution. The media just doesn't like to focus on them, and major universities do their best to squelch them when they find out because it's so incredibly politically incorrect right now. Not to mention, it's not only Christians who disagree with the theory. Muslims, Mormons, JW's to name a few, also reject it.
 
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shinbits

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It is when scientific theory is taken on faith the way we see people do with the ToE. There's a whole lot more philosophy and religion being promoted in the classrooms in relation to evolution than any actual scientific evidence.
Evolution isn't really "faith", when so much evidence exists to back it (fossils, dna, etc). Not just that, but evolution fits in with every other science, from biology to zoology.


Not true. There are many scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution. The media just doesn't like to focus on them, and major universities do their best to squelch them when they find out because it's so incredibly politically incorrect right now. Not to mention, it's not only Christians who disagree with the theory. Muslims, Mormons, JW's to name a few, also reject it.
Scientists disagree on the details of evolution, not on whether or not evolution is a valid.

And the media doesn't care about "political correctness" and what religions think about them. Otherwise, they wouldn't hound the Pope like they did over allegedly ignoring child abuse charges, or the multiple news stories about Catholic molestation in general. Science doesn't care about "political correctness either". Evolution was FAR more of a hot-button issue at the turn of the century, when this country was way more religious than it is now. Yet science still persisted.

So what you say doesn't seem correct.
 
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desmalia

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Evolution isn't really "faith", when so much evidence exists to back it (fossils, dna, etc). Not just that, but evolution fits in with every other science, from biology to zoology.



Scientists disagree on the details of evolution, not on whether or not evolution is a valid.
Have you ever heard of Michael Behe? There are many others like him who do reject evolution.

And the media doesn't care about "political correctness" and what religions think about them. Otherwise, they wouldn't hound the Pope like they did over allegedly ignoring child abuse charges, or the multiple news stories about Catholic molestation in general. Science doesn't care about "political correctness either". Evolution was FAR more of a hot-button issue at the turn of the century, when this country was way more religious than it is now. Yet science still persisted.

So what you say doesn't seem correct.

I'm afraid you do not understand what political correctness is. It is certainly very PC for the media to attack Christians, the church, whether Protestant or Catholic, and organized religion as a whole.
 
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sealacamp

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"Heres the question for discussion: If a Christian wouldnt try to integrate the Bible with a Mormon, Hindu, or Satanist worldview, what justifies that approach when it comes to evolutionary theories about origins?" - John MacArthur
That is indeed the question. It is a sad thing to see the people of God led astray and deceived yet that is exactly what is happening on many levels this being one of the many.

You are calling a scientific theory a religion?
That is exactly what it is since it can't be proven and must be accepted on faith. It is no less a religion than any other faith. No doubt before this will all end the false prophet will produce some form of bogus evidence designed to deceive Gods people even further until the world is ready for the end.

Evolution isn't really "faith", when so much evidence exists to back it (fossils, dna, etc). Not just that, but evolution fits in with every other science, from biology to zoology.
Actually that is not correct and is just another portion of the deception.

Combining one religion to another, isn't comparable to combining one scientific theory, with another scientific theory, reached the same way, through the same scientific methods.
Evolution is a theory and has its basis in one persons observations. There is not a quantifiable way to substantiate it and that is why scientists don't even agree on its viability. This being the case whether or not it is truly science is questionable at best.

Why would those that align themselves with Christ incorporate anything that dilutes His power and authority?

Sealcamp
 
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shinbits

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Evolution is at least a worldview, but I also thinks it falls more into the religion area and should be banned from all public schools immediately.
Evolution has no rules or moral code to follow, and therefore is not a religion.

Unlike religion, there's evidence for evolution, giving people an objective reason to teach it.
 
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VCViking

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Unlike religion, there's evidence for evolution, giving people an objective reason to teach it.

There is?

Contrary to so-called wanna be scientists, there is evidence that supports God and the Bible. Not so sure about evolution, hence why it is still called a theory or hypothesis.
 
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sealacamp

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Evolution has no rules or moral code to follow, and therefore is not a religion.

Ok then maybe it would be better to call it a fairy tale since faith is its mantra and is required to substantiate the unprovable. Call it what you will you have to believe in it to uphold its tenants. Now the millions that have died because of those who don't believe in God but believe in "survival of the fittest" and were put to death by those that upheld evolution and claimed to be the fittest may disagree with you.

Sealacamp
 
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Linkirvana

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I'm sorry what? What is all this ranting about false evidence and leading people astray from God?

Also people who don't believe in God but do believe in evolution automaticly believe in survival of the fittest? I believe in evolution, I believe in the big bang theory (or something similar) and why? Because extremely intelligent scientists have done immense calculations and found loads of evidence to back this up. They all generally agree when almost all of them have a VERY skeptical outlook on science.

You cannot even in the slightest say that you can derive any moral perspective from believing in evolution. You can find faults in the theory all you want - which are there but you should keep in mind that we're talking about the development and creation of life here which obviously wouldn't be some 1+1=2 theory.

Also there is evidence that supports the Bible/God's version of creation? I'd really love to have a look at that then.
 
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VCViking

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I believe in evolution, I believe in the big bang theory (or something similar) and why? Because extremely intelligent scientists have done immense calculations and found loads of evidence to back this up.


Too funny. Good thing I wasn't drinking when I read this, I would of ruined my laptop. ^_^^_^^_^^_^^_^^_^
 
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sealacamp

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They all generally agree when almost all of them have a VERY skeptical outlook on science.

Really? Maybe the atheist ones agree but by no means do "almost all" of them agree about much of anything and what every agreement there is it is likely to change tomorrow. What is strange to me is the atheist upholding of science in general when it was Christians in search of the laws of nature created by God that got science started in the first place.

Sealacamp
 
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Adoniram

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I'm sorry what? What is all this ranting about false evidence and leading people astray from God?

Also there is evidence that supports the Bible/God's version of creation? I'd really love to have a look at that then.
The ToE stands solely on how the "evidence" is interpreted, not on the evidence itself. And because scientists are bound by "scientific method" to seek "natural" explanations for what they observe (to the exclusion of supernatural explanations, or God), their "interpretations" of the evidence are biased toward the ToE. In fact, many scientists, and some very famous ones, are documented as having the stated goal of ruling out God as an explanation for anything.

That being said, the same "evidence" that evolutionists have access to can easily be interpreted to fit within the Biblical time frame of history. All of the fossil evidence, for instance, can be shown to have been laid down by the Flood of Noah's time, and this has been done by scientists not predisposed to an anti-God principle. The global Flood is actually a better explanation for some of the things that have been observed, such as certain fossils being found in places where one would not expect them. The geological layers observed are better explained by a global Flood than some other natural process. Of course, this throws a big kink in the need of the evolutionists to have an extremely long period of time for their explanation to make sense.

So they turn to radiometric dating to support long periods of time. The problem with that is that radiometric dating methods are based on assumptions that cannot be proven. For a quick review of what radiometric dating is: Radioactive elements such as uranium "decay" into other elements over time. Uranium (the parent element) decays into lead (the daughter element), for example. The rate of decay is called the half-life, and has been shown to be constant. Over a given period of time, a certain amount of the parent element will decay into a certain amount of the daughter element. To arrive at an estimate for the age of a sample, scientists determine the ratio between "parent" and "daughter" elements in the sample, and plug that into an equation using the known half-life of the parent element, rendering an estimate on the age of the sample. But this process makes assumptions that the scientists have no way of determining with any certainty. Scientists have no way of knowing how much parent element was present when the sample was formed; they have no way of knowing whether there was any of the daughter element present when the sample was formed; they do not know with certainty if the half-life has always been constant (recent studies indicate that the rate of decay may have been higher in the past, which would lead to higher age estimates); they can not know whether outside forces have altered the amounts of parent and daughter elements in a sample over time. Deviation in any of these factors from what they have assumed can lead to age estimates that are far removed from the actual age of the sample. And this too has been proven, most recently in samples that were obtained after the volcanic explosion of Mt. St. Helens. Actually, there are reliable scientific methods for estimating the age of the earth that have shown the possibility of a young earth, in support of the Biblical creation.

There is a mountain of research which shows that the evidence can support the Biblical creation. One has only to look at it with an open mind. It is the evolutionists, bent on proving a "natural" origin rather than one in which God had a hand, that have the closed minds in this area.
 
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VCViking

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The ToE stands solely on how the "evidence" is interpreted, not on the evidence itself. And because scientists are bound by "scientific method" to seek "natural" explanations for what they observe (to the exclusion of supernatural explanations, or God), their "interpretations" of the evidence are biased toward the ToE. In fact, many scientists, and some very famous ones, are documented as having the stated goal of ruling out God as an explanation for anything.

That being said, the same "evidence" that evolutionists have access to can easily be interpreted to fit within the Biblical time frame of history. All of the fossil evidence, for instance, can be shown to have been laid down by the Flood of Noah's time, and this has been done by scientists not predisposed to an anti-God principle. The global Flood is actually a better explanation for some of the things that have been observed, such as certain fossils being found in places where one would not expect them. The geological layers observed are better explained by a global Flood than some other natural process. Of course, this throws a big kink in the need of the evolutionists to have an extremely long period of time for their explanation to make sense.

So they turn to radiometric dating to support long periods of time. The problem with that is that radiometric dating methods are based on assumptions that cannot be proven. For a quick review of what radiometric dating is: Radioactive elements such as uranium "decay" into other elements over time. Uranium (the parent element) decays into lead (the daughter element), for example. The rate of decay is called the half-life, and has been shown to be constant. Over a given period of time, a certain amount of the parent element will decay into a certain amount of the daughter element. To arrive at an estimate for the age of a sample, scientists determine the ratio between "parent" and "daughter" elements in the sample, and plug that into an equation using the known half-life of the parent element, rendering an estimate on the age of the sample. But this process makes assumptions that the scientists have no way of determining with any certainty. Scientists have no way of knowing how much parent element was present when the sample was formed; they have no way of knowing whether there was any of the daughter element present when the sample was formed; they do not know with certainty if the half-life has always been constant (recent studies indicate that the rate of decay may have been higher in the past, which would lead to higher age estimates); they can not know whether outside forces have altered the amounts of parent and daughter elements in a sample over time. Deviation in any of these factors from what they have assumed can lead to age estimates that are far removed from the actual age of the sample. And this too has been proven, most recently in samples that were obtained after the volcanic explosion of Mt. St. Helens. Actually, there are reliable scientific methods for estimating the age of the earth that have shown the possibility of a young earth, in support of the Biblical creation.

There is a mountain of research which shows that the evidence can support the Biblical creation. One has only to look at it with an open mind. It is the evolutionists, bent on proving a "natural" origin rather than one in which God had a hand, that have the closed minds in this area.



Great post!:thumbsup:
 
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