Evolution in Schools

[Pete Harcoff]

Based on some of the posts I've been reading, some people have a very limited to absolutely no understanding of evolutionary theory (I used to have a very limited understanding, too, until I did a bunch of independent learning on the subject).

I just wonder if this is a direct reflection on the teaching of (or lack of) evolution in current school curriculums. I know up here in Ontario evolution was virtually wiped out from the curriculum, except for a bit in Grade 12 biology (which I never bothered to take, natch).

It's disheartening to see the same baseless claims and misconceptions about evolutionary theory constantly repeated over and over. Isn't there something that can be done to improve the teaching of evolutionary theory in schools? Seriously, how much pressure do religious groups have on the education systems anyway? (I guess I'm ignorant of the religious populace of the U.S., living in Canada after all, which seems to be fairly diversified.)

 

[Morat]

  The state of science education itself is fairly abysmal, at least in the United States. I'd personally put the blame far more on the prevailing culture than the teachers or the curriculm. America has always had a view of scientists as "ivory-tower intellectuals who don't know nothing about the real world", despite the fact the 'real world' runs on the fruit of scientist's labor.

 

 

 

[MSBS]

Well, I went to high school in a town of about 100,000 in Texas. We never discussed evolution at all. It wasn't even in the text books that we used. Even as an undergraduate in college the mechanisms of evolution where never discussed in depth, and in many classes it was just assumed and there was little if any discussion (on one occation where it did come up there was a fundamentalist christian whose angry protestations managed to squelch any rational discussion of the subject). I went out of my way to study evolution, and the best exposure as an undergrad I had was in two classes that I took from the philosphy department-- they were "philosophy of science" and "history and philosophy of science: Charles Darwin." In the philosphy of science class we discussed creation and evolution in some pretty good detail. There where a couple of philosphy majors in that class that where evangelical christians, but the where pretty much cut to shreds by the professor (PhDs in both physics and philosphy) when they tried to use the Kent Hovind/AIG arguements. The Darwin class was made up of pretty much only science majors, so there wasn't much debate in class. Later as a grad student in cellular and molecular biology I took a semester long class in evolution.

My point in going over all of this is that it is possible to actually obtain a BS in a science major without ever covering evolution in depth (when I did so the classes were elective, not required). To expect someone with only a HS degree or a BA or BS in a non-science major to have ever been exposed to it (particularly with the watered down HS science caricula enforced by the fundies) is wisfull thinking at best.

 

[Humanista]

I noticed with satisfaction that my 5th-grader's science class features a large portrait of Charles Darwin. At least some effort may be made to introduce common descent.

A few years ago there was a tremendous uproar in my state when evolution disclaimers were to be attached to science textbooks. The courts ruled that the textbook committee couldn't do that. Sadly, the committee had several teachers on it who were quite vocal in their opposition of teaching evolution at all. They were each allowed to have 2 advisors ( none of them were science teachers) and at least one chose Kent Hovind!

Surveys revealed over 70% of my state's population thinks evolution is false. That is rather scary.

 

[Hector Medina]

Humanista stated:

Surveys revealed over 70% of my state's population thinks evolution is false. That is rather scary.

NO THAT IS GOOD when you find out the LIES and PROPANGDA about the ridiculous theory of evolution search for my posts under my name and learn,learn,learn!!!


PRAISE THE LORD!

In Christ,

Hector

 

[MSBS]

I'm comming to the conclusion that Hector is nothing but a troll and is likely not even a christian.

 

[Hector Medina]

I DON'T CARE what you evolutionists say to refute me Kent Hovind,Jack Chick,etc.........

We(both you and I) all have the right to speak(even know I'm right and your wrong) soooooo refute all you want ,your NOT bothering me!



In Christ,

Hector

 

[Humanista]

Originally posted by Hector Medina
Humanista stated:

Surveys revealed over 70% of my state's population thinks evolution is false. That is rather scary.

NO THAT IS GOOD when you find out the LIES and PROPANGDA about the ridiculous theory of evolution search for my posts under my name and learn,learn,learn!!!

Good sites:

www.drdino.com

www.answersingenesis.org

PRAISE THE LORD!

In Christ,

Hector

 

I think I will decline to "learn" from someone who can't spell and doesn't even know what evolution is.

If you want respect for your ideas, first you have to present something beyond baseless accusations and hysterical religious rhetoric.

 

[Humanista]

Originally posted by Hector Medina
I DON'T CARE what you evolutionists say to refute me Kent Hovind,Jack Chick,etc.........

We(both you and I) all have the right to speak(even know I'm right and your wrong) soooooo refute all you want ,your NOT bothering me!



In Christ,

Hector

There's nothing to refute. All you've done is say you are right. I certainly will not argue with you over your state of mind. If you want to present some evidence to support your opinions, please do so.

 

[Chris H]

We homeschool our five children and are going to be using the Miller/Levine textbook for High school biology. We're not the only homeschoolers teaching our children evolution, either.

I live in Ohio and I think the current ID fad is frightening. Earlier posters pointed out how watered down our current curriculum is. Anyone with a good knowledge of evolution and public education would certainly agree with that sentiment.

In (my public high) school we studied evolution by re-creating the scopes trial (with some modern twists) in a speech class. We set up a court room and brought witnesses pro and con. Needless to say the creationists lost badly. This was back in 81/82 when Arkansas had its little legal battle.

Judge Overton was correct on January 5, 1982 when he handed down his verdict that creationism isn't science and shouldn't be taught in public schools. The verdict is even more correct today with our increased knowledge of evolution. In the last twenty years new transitional fossils have been found, our knowledge of genetics has increased, we understand the human genome much better, etc.

I'm stunned that someone with an understanding of the world would reject evolution without examining the evidence.

Chris

 

[Mid]

that is rather sad humanista, the people who put to H*ell all thoughts of evolution like to bask in the warmth of our scientific findings. I myself am a theistic evolutionist but I do not think that religion and science should be crossed AT ALL in public schools. Private schools should be allowed to do what they want but should be required by law to teach evolution as well as being able to teach creationism. After that, let the kids believe whichever one that they want

 

[secularfuture]

There is a reason why creation isn’t taught in schools.

#1 it’s unconstitutional
#2 which version of creation should they teach?

The Christian version of creation isn’t the ONLY version of creation. Science is consistent because it does not favor any particular faith. It is secular, and universal, like math.

 

[newworldcrusader]

I say dont teach any of it! Leave it to the parents to teach the "theorys"!
All the problems would be solved. It isnt aginst the constituion no religion is involved! This is simple.

 

[sakamuyo]

I agree with leaving creationism out of the schools. I just want them to label evolutionism as a 'theory' rather than a 'fact'. I don't want them to water down evolution or not teach it in the schools. I just want them to use good scientific method and separate fact (what we can see, smell, touch, hear, taste) from theory (what we make of the facts).

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by sakamuyo
I agree with leaving creationism out of the schools. I just want them to label evolutionism as a 'theory' rather than a 'fact'. I don't want them to water down evolution or not teach it in the schools. I just want them to use good scientific method and separate fact (what we can see, smell, touch, hear, taste) from theory (what we make of the facts).

Evolution is a "theory" the same way that gravitation, relativity, and Newton's laws are "theories".

That said, I think the distinction between "our best explanation for this" and "the observations themselves" is an important one, and should be clearly maintained.

 

[sakamuyo]

Oh. I also believe the government has a responsibility to adhere to the separation of church and state and not require any student to believe in evolution. It is possible for a student to learn evolution theory and state the theory in a final exam, yet be allowed to hold a personal belief in another system.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by sakamuyo
Oh. I also believe the government has a responsibility to adhere to the separation of church and state and not require any student to believe in evolution. It is possible for a student to learn evolution theory and state the theory in a final exam, yet be allowed to hold a personal belief in another system.

Oh, indeed. I also believe that students are entitled to reject the germ theory of disease, to believe that murder is morally justified if you are stronger than the person you killed, or to believe that carbon atoms are intelligent. I don't think the school has any business dictating belief; merely presenting currently accepted theories, and requiring students to be able to demonstrate an understanding of them, is sufficient.

 

[MSBS]

We should keep evolution out of the schools! Students should do all of their evolving on their own time and not in class.

 

[wb3]

There are numerous theories for both evolution and creation. Look I am a freshman in High School taking Biology. I would rather have a couple theories of both creation and evolution. I have friends that are the same way. If they are going to teach me one theory thay need to teach me both. They are both theories not fact. You have to believe both of these THEORIES by FAITH. This is because THEY ARE NOT FACT. NEITHER OF THEM.
One deserves to be in school as much as the other.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by wb3
There are numerous theories for both evolution and creation.

Please list these various theories.

Look I am a freshman in High School taking Biology. I would rather have a couple theories of both creation and evolution. I have friends that are the same way. If they are going to teach me one theory thay need to teach me both. They are both theories not fact. You have to believe both of these THEORIES by FAITH. This is because THEY ARE NOT FACT. NEITHER OF THEM.

Evolution is both a fact and a theory. The fact of evolution is that the properties of populations and lineages of organisms, or frequencies of such properties, change over time. The theory of evolution explains this observation by identifying mechanisms that are responsible for it. Such mechanisms include mutation, natural selection, genetic drift, and isolation.

(Wb3, maybe you should wait until you are finished with HS freshmen biology before you start saying what evolution is or isn't.)

One deserves to be in school as much as the other.

Well according to the constitution and supreme court precident, religious beliefs of orgins do not belong in public classrooms. If you want to learn creationism in biology class, go to an approprate private school.