Evolution - implications

[Lord Emsworth]

Wasn't there a similar thread in the Philosophy subforum? In any case, the discussion was much better than in this one so far.
Link: http://www.christianforums.com/t7753990/

 

[essentialsaltes]

Didn't Germany's scientists in the 1940s experiment with evolution?

If you're referring to Nazi racialism, no.

If you're referring more generally to medical experiments that were later considered war crimes, then your example agrees with my point that science or medicine does not provide a valid philosophical basis for excusing crimes.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you're referring more generally to medical experiments that were later considered war crimes, then your example agrees with my point that science or medicine does not provide a valid philosophical basis for excusing crimes.

Ya ... what is one day considered "medical experiments," is another day considered "war crimes."

I can't wait until abortion is put back on the books as a "crime."

 

[jpcedotal]

If evolution is to be true, shouldn't there be a great number of fossil remains of these "inbetween" species specimens? In fact, shouldn't there more of these than those we can put into certain "blocks" of living organisms?

I mean there are fossils of birds and there are fossils of reptiles, but shouldn't there be more bird-reptile crossover fossils at different stages than both of these combined?

In order for this process to occur there had to be (according to the evolution theory) an almost exponential greater number of mistakes and gradual changes with carbon dating differences of billions of years...than fossils of a fully formed bird and a fully formed reptile.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Didn't Germany's scientists in the 1940s experiment with evolution?

Micro evolution.

 

[jpcedotal]

It just seems that the fossil evidence, or lack of, makes evolution as unstable in theory form as Creation is in theory form.

In order for evolution to work, there could have NEVER EVER been a sudden climate change....everything the earth went through would have to be extremely slow-moving always, or carbon dating is an inaccurate measure of dating fossils....in could only be accurate up to the last extreme climate change...AND scientist would have to know pretty exactly when this was...so there would be a zero date.

 

[jpcedotal]

Where are the numberless fossil records of evolution? I mean it should not be a handful of very debatable fossils total, it should be the numberless majority...but it just isn't.

It is like saying a pearl came from sand...without the physical proof of the sand itself. The ratio of pearls to sand should be comparable to the number of inbetween fossils for every one categorized species fossil.

 

[quatona]

Didn't Germany's scientists in the 1940s experiment with evolution?

Didn´t creationists burn witches?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Ya ... what is one day considered "medical experiments," is another day considered "war crimes."

In some cases the Nazi doctors' methodology was so shoddy, what they were doing hardly counts as an experiment.

However, in the cases where they were genuinely carrying out an experiment, the fact that it was also a crime does not stop it from being an experiment. It didn't convert from an experiment into a crime. It was both.

 

[jpcedotal]

Couldn't scientists state evolution as fact with the same certainty as gravity if they could show one transition of one life form through the fossil record?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Didn´t creationists burn witches?

And commit genocide, defend genocide, enslave, defend slavery, etc. And yes, all justified by cretionist with their own holy creationist story books. Ask anybody about Ham's curse, for instance. Was popular with the slave holders of God's Own Country.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Couldn't scientists state evolution as fact with the same certainty as gravity if they could show one transition of one life form through the fossil record?

Here is a list of several prominent examples of transitional fossils.

 

[jpcedotal]

For arguments sake, if real science finally debunks evolution and states that intelligent design is the only possibility of life....would the science world embrace God or some supreme alien intelligence as the creator....

 

[Lord Emsworth]

For arguments sake, if real science finally debunks evolution and states that intelligent design is the only possibility of life....would the science world embrace God or some supreme alien intelligence as the creator....

Yes, but only if ID presented some kind of theory and only as long as ID remained undebunked. Science is inheretly unfaithful.

 

[jpcedotal]

Yes, but only if ID presented some kind of theory and only as long as ID remained undebunked. Science is inheretly unfaithful.

not talking faith as much as where would this worldview turn to, if denying God must be upheld at all cost.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

not talking faith as much as where would this worldview turn to, if denying God must be upheld at all cost.

Sorry, I am not sure I can parse that sentence. Would you care to try again?

 

[Heissonear]

Here is a list of several prominent examples of transitional fossils.

Nice try. When I was taking paleontology as an evolutionist at the time I realized how lame the fossil record is. Even the burial and preservation conditions required.

My friend, just look what God has allowed us to do to canines.

Remember, it take "beneficial" mutations for your theory. But let's not look at how many are beneficial, then successful, for the first few "verge of extinct" to survive, etc.

Now, what were you saying about transitional fossils as evidence?

 

[Split Rock]

1. It blasphemes God, since God says He made us in His image, whereas evolution says we came from an animal.

Interpretation of "made in his image" varies.

2. It teaches us human beings are animals, whereas God has set us apart from the animal kingdom.

No, we actually are objectively, "animals." We have all the characteristics of members of the Animal Kingdom. Don't like that? Too bad.

3. It teaches we came about by natural processes, whereas God created us via a miraculous fiat.

That is an allegory.

4. It reduces Genesis 1 to the status of a fable, starting a process whereby the rest of the Scriptures are looked upon with suspicion. Left unchecked, this downward spiral will eventually lead to every jot & tittle being reduced to the status of an allegory.

No, only those passages that clearly describe allegories. Like when you have trees bearing magically fruit, talking serpents, a woman made from a rib, etc.

5. It breeds contempt between evolutionists and creationists.

No, creationism breeds contempt between evolutionists and creationists.

6. It creates a zero tolerance for those who don't appreciate it, or know how it works -- right down to the molecular level.

I'm not sure where this idea comes from. Most evolution supporters here don't even posess such knowledge.

7. It creates a philosophy that the Antichrist will be able to exploit to the fullest.

According to your twisted view of REV.

8. It teaches uniformitarianism, rather than catastrophism.

So?

9. It breeds Antisemitism & Antizionism.

Bull. I call shenanigans!

10. It produces no hope for the future -- only destruction & despair.

Nonsense. How does it "produce destruction and despair?" By indicating life will continue to adapt to changes in our environment?

 

[AV1611VET]

< standard predictable denials >

Man, slow down.

50% of your lines had typos.

 

[Split Rock]

If evolution is to be true, shouldn't there be a great number of fossil remains of these "inbetween" species specimens? In fact, shouldn't there more of these than those we can put into certain "blocks" of living organisms?

I mean there are fossils of birds and there are fossils of reptiles, but shouldn't there be more bird-reptile crossover fossils at different stages than both of these combined?

In order for this process to occur there had to be (according to the evolution theory) an almost exponential greater number of mistakes and gradual changes with carbon dating differences of billions of years...than fossils of a fully formed bird and a fully formed reptile.

Yes, there are plenty of fossils that are difficult to caetgorize into established nomenclature. The mammal-like reptiles are a good example of this. There are numerous extinct species, and it is arbitrary whether one is put into the "reptile" category or the "mammal" category. The theropod dinosaurs also do not fit well into the "reptile" category, especially since they are now aligned with birds.

Also, carbon dating is not used for such old fossils. Finally, what is a "fully formed" bird or reptile? Which is Archaeopteryx?

It just seems that the fossil evidence, or lack of, makes evolution as unstable in theory form as Creation is in theory form.

In order for evolution to work, there could have NEVER EVER been a sudden climate change....everything the earth went through would have to be extremely slow-moving always, or carbon dating is an inaccurate measure of dating fossils....in could only be accurate up to the last extreme climate change...AND scientist would have to know pretty exactly when this was...so there would be a zero date.

Again, there is no carbon-dating of these fossils. There have been numerous mass extinctions according to the fossil record, at least some of which were likely do to climate change.

Where are the numberless fossil records of evolution? I mean it should not be a handful of very debatable fossils total, it should be the numberless majority...but it just isn't.

It is like saying a pearl came from sand...without the physical proof of the sand itself. The ratio of pearls to sand should be comparable to the number of inbetween fossils for every one categorized species fossil.

Haven't you ever been to a natural history museum?

Couldn't scientists state evolution as fact with the same certainty as gravity if they could show one transition of one life form through the fossil record?

There are plenty of examples:
Horse:Horse Evolution Over 55 Million Years
Horse Evolution
Horse

Whale:Philip D. Gingerich
http://etb-whales.blogspot.com/2012/03/whale-evolution-and-atavistic-hind.html
http://sites.google.com/site/palaeocritti/by-group/eutheria/cetacea/mysticeti

Mammal-like reptiles: Jaws to ears in the ancestors of mammals
Palaeos Vertebrates: Therapsida Overview
Palaeos Vertebrates: Cynodontia: Basal Cynodontia