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Evolution/Creation on Trial

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Loudmouth

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We have many ID/creationists here claiming that DNA has information that only a designer could produce, yet when faced with a simple 100 base DNA sequence they can't do anything with it. Seems that all ID/creationists have are empty assertions.
 
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paulm50

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The whale for one.
Can you show how this applies, your statement was confusing, backing it up by saying whales, isn't helpful. Please provide illustrations of how Whales fit your formula.
False. The Genesis Narrative even states that life forms (kinds) came before the Kinds being presented in the Narrative.
Proof please. Copy and paste it from the original machine translated version.

The proof is in all those things that materialists like to claim are illusions.
The proof is an illusion. OK I understand now.
 
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Loudmouth

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All of which are analogies.

Do you think that if I took out all of the DNA from a cell nucleus and put that DNA into a test tube of saline all by itself that a cell would be formed? If I even included a few lipids, phosphates, nitrates, and amino acids, would you see a cell form in front of your eyes? Does DNA tell a protein how to fold, or which ligand to bind to?
 
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Loudmouth

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Many who call themselves Christians don't believe the bible. How they can claim to believe God and think he's a liar is beyond me.

Do you believe the Creation? Would God put fake evidence in the Creation just to fool us?

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of common design? Everything was designed to fill a notch in a single ecosystem; earth.

Why would that require a nested hierarchy?
 
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Loudmouth

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Where did ENCODE demonstrate that a majority of the human genome has function which impacts human fitness? Evolution has no problem explaining why leaky RNA transcriptase activity can produce low copy RNA transcripts from junk DNA.
 
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Oncedeceived

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ENCODE did use a "different" definition for function.
Another thing ENCODE did was go in without an a priori evolutionary mindset. They went into it with no preconceived evolutionary concepts. Thus, the reason for many Scientists to dismiss what they had to present. The biggest problem with ENCODE (scientists worked very hard on this project) was that they were part of a circus designed to garner great interest in BiG Science. The projects that take great amounts of money in hopes that it will be used in smaller projects that all in all are much more expensive to fund and yield smaller returns. Its about the money. Unfortunately, those people that give money for scientific research will want to fund these broad efforts for numerous reasons and leave the smaller efforts without funding. The individual scientists in ENCODE were taking their science to a broad and varied audience, hoping to supply needed research for numerous endeavors in Science for those who don't have the equipment, money or scientists to get the information they need. The Media circus caused a great deal more controversy than should have occurred and it ultimately will hurt the small research arenas that garner great advances in Science.
 
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paulm50

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Many who call themselves Christians don't believe the bible. How they can claim to believe God and think he's a liar is beyond me.
We don't claim god is a liar. We claim priests and clergy can be liars, and in the case of Genesis and creation, were lying.

They simply didn't know anything but their part of the World, their oral stories passed down by mouth, and a little bit of writing. Which as far as the creation story had to be oral in the beginning. Which is wrong as the first people in the Middle East weren't farming.

Hebrew Bible.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Do you believe the Creation? Would God put fake evidence in the Creation just to fool us?
You just can't shake that faulty mentality that if evolution no God and if God no evolution.



Why would that require a nested hierarchy?
There is no valid reason that Creation would not create a nested hierarchy. Do you have one?
 
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Oncedeceived

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Why is Genesis the only Narrative that puts forth a sequence of creation that can be supported in part by scientific findings?
 
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paulm50

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Why is Genesis the only Narrative that puts forth a sequence of creation that can be supported in part by scientific findings?
I'm sorry. I assumed as a Christian you would believe in the Genesis Approach of a god doing all this. Can you show me what you believe created the Earth and all the species here, please.
 
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paulm50

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That would require you to demonstrate that there has been a mistake. Where has anyone shown that these are not transitional fossils?



Where have you ever shown that they were produced by "breed mates"?
Scientists have now proven Humans mated with Neanderthals. We share their DNA.

As for the Human skulls, illustrates perfectly how we evolved. The Hominid family is relatively new, so we find more remains and less gaps occur. Like a lot of later species. The problem is with species that lived 100 million years ago.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Actually it is not 55 million years which has always been considered the required amount of time according to materialists for this evolution to occur. However, you must be unfamiliar with the discovery of fossil evidence that drops that 55 million down to around 3 to 5 million years. Which sounds like a lot of time but considering the evolutionary models it is hardly a blink of an eye.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...tica-whales-oldest-evolution-animals-science/

Based on 53-million-year-old fossils of whale-like, semi-aquatic mammals, scientists had thought mammals gave rise to whales in a process that took 15 million years. The new find suggests it took just 4 million years. (See a prehistoric time line.)
 
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Oncedeceived

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I'm sorry. I assumed as a Christian you would believe in the Genesis Approach of a god doing all this. Can you show me what you believe created the Earth and all the species here, please.
As a Christian I believe the Christian God created the universe and all that exists.
 
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Oncedeceived

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I said I wanted evidence. Please provide evidence that the OT and NT were political creations due to need.
 
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Loudmouth

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Scientists have now proven Humans mated with Neanderthals. We share their DNA.

They have also shown that cross-breeding was very limited, and mainly occurred in European populations. The numbers I have heard are 5-10% contribution to modern populations, mostly of European heritage.

As for the Human skulls, illustrates perfectly how we evolved. The Hominid family is relatively new, so we find more remains and less gaps occur. Like a lot of later species. The problem is with species that lived 100 million years ago.

I would also hazard a guess that there are a lot more people looking for hominid fossils.
 
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Loudmouth

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You just can't shake that faulty mentality that if evolution no God and if God no evolution.

Where did I make any such statement?

There is no valid reason that Creation would not create a nested hierarchy. Do you have one?

I have been saying from the start that there would be no reason why ID/creationism would necessarily produce a nested hierarchy. You haven't shown why a nested hierarchy is a prediction of ID/creationism.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Quite the opposite, I'm ready to accept a god and creation. If you can prove it with even a little bit of evidence, not by disproving parts of evolution.
There is evidence but that evidence is called illusion.
When one believes that evolution is the only process by which life could arise and change, is a belief based on evidence alone, then if one doesn't have the evidence one needs to prove it, this leads to disproving claims that people make about evolution. Its the way it is.

God will come back but I don't think that will be a good thing for you unless something changes drastically.

Evolution doesn't mean no God and NO God doesn't mean no evolution. Hard one to get your mind around I guess?

Wrong. The jumps you propose is because of the scarcity of the older fossil. As we get to the last million years, the gaps are shorter, last 500,000 closer still.
Like I said, the whale is an example of what I was referring to.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Where did I make any such statement?
You imply it all the time.


I have been saying from the start that there would be no reason why ID/creationism would necessarily produce a nested hierarchy. You haven't shown why a nested hierarchy is a prediction of ID/creationism.
It was your claim, why wouldn't ID produce a nested hierarchy?
 
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Loudmouth

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There is evidence but that evidence is called illusion.

Can you show us the scientific methodology, unit of measure, and statistical tests for detecting design?

Evolutionary mechanisms are the only mechanisms we have evidence for. For some structures we will have to conclude that we just don't know how they came about. However, for the changes we do have evidence for the evidence is consistent with evolutionary mechanisms.

Unfortunately, you think a God of the Gaps argument is somehow valid, that not knowing how something evolved on a mutation by mutation level that this somehow evidences magic. Well, it doesn't.

Evolution doesn't mean no God and NO God doesn't mean no evolution. Hard one to get your mind around I guess?

Then why do you use a God of the Gaps argument?
 
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