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Evolution - and their take over/destruction of science

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klutedavid

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It's clearly hearsay; and if 500 people witnessed something that amazing, why is there no documentary corroboration? There were news gatherers and disseminators (i.e. media) in those days.

There are lots of difficulties with reconciling the different biblical accounts after the death of Jesus, and a good case to be made that Paul uses language more consistent with a spiritual arising than a physical one. Also interesting how the accounts become increasingly miraculous and fantastical over time - classic legend-making.
I think the rise of the church after the time of the resurrection, is clear evidence that these 500 witnesses had an impact.

There is documentary corroboration, the Roman empire became the Catholic church.
 
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Arius

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Ring species are an interesting example of how speciation involves populations that, over many generations, have become different enough to be considered separate species. What you mean by "beetles, lizards, moths, bacteria..." being "still the same species" isn't clear - as you quoted in your post there are hundreds of thousands of beetle species alone, so they're clearly not "still the same species".

Because it doesn't happen that way; the population gradually changes over many generations; there is no overnight change. The process is analogous to the changing stages of human life; there's no overnight change between baby and child, child and youth, youth and adult, etc., life is a continuous process of change; so different cultures and societies make a decision on when they will consider a transition to have occurred according to some selected criteria, e.g. appearance of body hair, or voice change, or age in years, or arrival of periods, etc.

Declaring that speciation has occurred is a similar process - it means we've decided to distinguish two populations as distinctively different based on selected criteria, e.g. reproductive capability, or genetic differences, or stable phenotypic differences, etc.

No species will ever evolve into another existing or past species - they will always evolve into new species; and those new species will eventually evolve in turn (unless they go extinct) into one or more new species, and so-on. The species they evolve into will become ever more distinct/different from the original parent species until, many species down the line, they may appear to be completely different from the original parent species. Ring species show a speciation stage of this process in detail, where the intermediate populations between one species and the next still exist.

The tree of all life on Earth is the result of this process of branching speciation, where so many changes have occurred between early species and contemporary species that the contemporary species look very different from the original ancestor species, and the many ends of the branches (lineages) look different from each other according to how far up the tree their branches separated.

Fossils are the evidence of past speciation of populations that lived in those times.

You've misunderstood - a species can give rise to a new species and still continue to exist. If part of a population of a species is isolated in a new environment, it will progressively adapt to that environment over many generations, eventually becoming a new species. Meanwhile, the other population(s) of the species, if well-adapted to the original environment, may remain relatively unchanged; so you will have a new species that has branched off from the original species, where both species exist at the same time. This has often occurred when breeding pairs become isolated on islands, for example. Of course, given enough time, the original species (if it doesn't go extinct) will change sufficiently to be considered a new species too.

@FrumiousBandersnatch
I haven't misunderstood anything, it is Evolutionists that twist on taxonomy, mixing words, and mislabeling where finally you justify exterminating those you deem under you, those deep down in your heart you label sub-human.

Look, you have categorized humans created in our Creators image as; animals. Once you got away with that, you labeled us apes, and our not-so distant cousins yo labeled them even as something distasteful and abhorring as rats.

Did you, or did you guys not say that evolution/speciation never happens?

Here is (for the hundredth time) the definition of speciation

Speciation: the formation of new and distinct species in the course of evolution.

How long does it take for a distinct type of species to evolve into another completely different species, example; gorilla to a human?
In you guys own words: "A long time", may be even millions and billions of years.

According to this hate-theory; when a specific species, let's say the gorilla, has evolved to a point that it looks like a human, and DNA shows it's now a human, has evolution achieved speciation of the gorilla into a completely different species, .. or NOT?


Now here is where the diversion, the hand waving, the ridiculing, the name calling starts; when I ask the simple question: "How does the gorilla change over to a human, is it by waking up one morning a human, or giving birth to a human, or how?"

Evolutionists response;
"You don't understand evolution, a gorilla NEVER turns into a human, it never speciate into a completely different species, that doesn't happen, it never happened, and never will happen! What happens is that a gorilla will turn into a Common Ancestor, .. and it is that Common Ancestor that turns into, morphs into, gives birth to a human."

And may I ask how the Common Ancestor turns into a human?

You guys show thousands of skulls, and bone fragments of species of unknown origins dug up from graves, or Peleoartist's rendered images and tell me: "This is how, as you can see these skulls evolving. This is our proof of evolution!"

So the fact is, that the only evolution that does happen, is according to Gods creation, each species will evolve after their own kind, where a lizard, a moth, a bacteria, a dog, a horse, a pigeon, a cat will remain the same species, with variations, like we see in a Great Dane, and a teacup poodle .. but EVOLUTION of one species into a completely different species we all agree: NEVER HAPPENS!

So, .. please stop calling me, my family, my ancestors; animals, family of apes.


(if that lady in that "family collage" was a picture of someone I knew, I would encourage her to sue Dawkins pants off!)

It is not nice, and since my ancestors were exterminated as rats, and before that hundreds of millions of Negros in Africa were treated like animals, and exterminated at will over many hundreds of years, displayed as apes, as gorillas, as the missing link:


It's time to put such hate and discrimination to an end. This grave robbing, skull & bones worshipping religion should be put on trial for 'Crimes Against Humanity', and no longer allowed to call themselves scientists, or call the grave robbing work they do: "science"!
 
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Arius

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Actually DH, science may never know whether the universe is finite or infinite.

If it's made out of a thing, like something, than no matter how fast, or how long and how far it is expanding, it is finite. and will always remain finite.

Big Bangers have changed Infinite on us also, and turned it into something 'finite', just a lot of it.

Cantor's Attic is a good example of this:
Cantor's Attic

God is Infinite (not infinity)
man has made Him into finite, like the tens of thousands of gods out there each worshipped by their own Religious Doctrines, which has to be accepted on 'blind faith', .. which is what all faith is considered as.
 
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klutedavid

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It's clearly hearsay; and if 500 people witnessed something that amazing, why is there no documentary corroboration? There were news gatherers and disseminators (i.e. media) in those days.

There are lots of difficulties with reconciling the different biblical accounts after the death of Jesus, and a good case to be made that Paul uses language more consistent with a spiritual arising than a physical one. Also interesting how the accounts become increasingly miraculous and fantastical over time - classic legend-making.
Where there's smoke there is usually fire, so much smoke.

Of course there are difficulties with the four different accounts, yet they all agree on the main points. I prefer differences in the accounts, at least I know they were not copies of one another.

I agree that a classic coloring of the narration has occurred, how could I disagree?

Yet the fundamental narration, the predicted narration holds firm, sufficient to achieve the goal!
 
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klutedavid

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If it's made out of a thing, like something, than no matter how fast, or how long and how far it is expanding, it is finite. and will always remain finite.

Big Bangers have changed Infinite on us also, and turned it into something 'finite', just a lot of it.

Cantor's Attic is a good example of this:
Cantor's Attic

God is Infinite (not infinity)
man has made Him into finite, like the tens of thousands of gods out there each worshipped by their own Religious Doctrines, which has to be accepted on 'blind faith', .. which is what all faith is considered as.
The upper attic
The upper attic is the realm of large cardinals and the higher infinite, extending from inaccessibility to inconsistency.
The middle attic
The middle attic surveys the infinite cardinals whose existence can be proved in, or is at least equiconsistent with, the ZFC axioms of set theory.
The lower attic
The lower attic classifies various large countable ordinals.
The parlour
Aspiring to the attic, the parlour contains the truly vast finite numbers.
The playroom
Enjoy the stimulating entertainments of the playroom, full of fun and paradox.
The library
Peruse the selections of our library, the central repository of all references cited here at Cantor's attic.
The cellar
Review the foundations of our subject with informative background presentations of ideas used throughout the attic.

Burn the heretic!
 
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Arius

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I think the rise of the church after the time of the resurrection, is clear evidence that these 500 witnesses had an impact.

There is documentary corroboration, the Roman empire became the Catholic church.

Yes, .. and the Catholic Church created the Christian Religion, using the Old and the New Testaments with their own version of God as 'gods', .. like the Trinity-gods that the pagan god worshipping Constantine, and the Romans could accept!

The Disciples/Believers called themselves; "The Way", following after Christ; "I am the Way, the Truth & the Life".
The Gentiles in Antioch mock-called the Believers "Christian", same like we would call someone Goodie Two Shoes: The definition of a goody two shoes is a person who always does everything right and always follows the rules, so much so that it becomes annoying.

Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Mocking them

Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
Agrippa mocks Paul

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.
The Disciples were getting tired of it, but were encouraged to suffer and to glorify God in this matter.
 
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Arius

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The upper attic
The upper attic is the realm of large cardinals and the higher infinite, extending from inaccessibility to inconsistency.
The middle attic
The middle attic surveys the infinite cardinals whose existence can be proved in, or is at least equiconsistent with, the ZFC axioms of set theory.
The lower attic
The lower attic classifies various large countable ordinals.
The parlour
Aspiring to the attic, the parlour contains the truly vast finite numbers.
The playroom
Enjoy the stimulating entertainments of the playroom, full of fun and paradox.
The library
Peruse the selections of our library, the central repository of all references cited here at Cantor's attic.
The cellar
Review the foundations of our subject with informative background presentations of ideas used throughout the attic.

Burn the heretic!

Thank you, but what do you mean by "burn the heretic" @klutedavid ?
 
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Skreeper

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The bottom line is that we both creationist and evolutionist admit that: "Evolution/speciation of one species into another distinct species NEVER HAPPENS

I've corrected your quote mine so many times that by now I'm just assuming that you keep lying because you are an incredibly dishonest person. You know that lying is a sin, right?
 
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Skreeper

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Evolutionists response;
"You don't understand evolution, a gorilla NEVER turns into a human, it never speciate into a completely different species, that doesn't happen, it never happened, and never will happen! What happens is that a gorilla will turn into a Common Ancestor, .. and it is that Common Ancestor that turns into, morphs into, gives birth to a human."

No one said anything close to that. That's just your strawman version because you're either intentionally lying or your education and understanding is just poor.
 
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Arius

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I've corrected your quote mine so many times that by now I'm just assuming that you keep lying because you are an incredibly dishonest person. You know that lying is a sin, right?

Corrected? So why not answer my question; "What species is the Common Ancestor"?

So far it's; "nothing yet, still evolving/speciating, and then gosh-darn, they died out. But here, we got a lot of skull & bones of them, isn't that proof enough of evolution?"
 
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Arius

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No one said anything close to that. That's just your strawman version because you're either intentionally lying or your education and understanding is just poor.

So why not answer my question; "What species is the Common Ancestor"?
 
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Skreeper

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Corrected? So why not answer my question; "What species is the Common Ancestor"?

So far it's; "nothing yet, still evolving/speciating, and then gosh-darn, they died out. But here, we got a lot of skull & bones of them, isn't that proof enough of evolution?"

You can call it whatever you like. We don't need the bones to be able to tell that we're related to that organism. We also don't need the remains of your grand-grand-grandfather to tell that you're related. Our DNA is more than enough evidence.
 
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Jimmy D

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yet here I am bearing his name Arius, and fighting yet another misconception, lie; the Evolution story.
The trinity was to hide who God is, and now this Evolution story is to hide His creation. Not on my watch, not as long as there is breath in my lungs.

By misrepresenting science, slandering honest people, making snarky comments, straw man arguments and showing a real ignorance of the topic?

I don’t see even see any of your fellow creationists chipping in to support your “arguments”, why do you think that is?
 
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Nithavela

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I've corrected your quote mine so many times that by now I'm just assuming that you keep lying because you are an incredibly dishonest person. You know that lying is a sin, right?
You must forgive him. He's fighting for his god and he has to use every sin he can. Otherwise, how could his god win?
 
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xianghua

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Suppose one line of the family Canidae developed modified forelegs similar to bat's wings and acquired the ability to fly. It would still be a member of the family Canidae like all other dogs. Would that be "evolution?"
sure it will be evolution since it has now a new complex system.
 
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xianghua

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Do you believe in plate tectonics? What about radioactive decay? The rotation of the galaxy? All processes that take millions of years, yet have been observed.
sure because we can observe or measure those things. but we cant observe or measure evolution.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I haven't misunderstood anything, it is Evolutionists that twist on taxonomy, mixing words, and mislabeling where finally you justify exterminating those you deem under you, those deep down in your heart you label sub-human.
I think that false and distasteful accusation says more about you than me. I hope you get the help you need.
 
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