• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

evolution and the fall

Status
Not open for further replies.

lawtonfogle

My solace my terror, my terror my solace.
Apr 20, 2005
11,586
350
36
✟13,892.00
Faith
Christian
If its only spiritual death, what was the resurrection all about? Why do we "look for the resurrection of the dead?"

Jesus was a big one for mixing spiritual and physical. Also, how could we have been sure a spiritual resurrection of Christ if He didn't have a physical one as well... though one could say that His resurrection wasn't purely physical either, as Jesus acted far more like a spirit than a body afterwords.
 
Upvote 0

peace4ever

Newbie
Apr 14, 2006
456
27
✟23,276.00
Faith
Non-Denom
This has probably come up before, but I was not smart enough to find it.
I am pretty much a firm believer in Evolution. You couldn't convince me it didn't happen without effectively discrediting science altogether. So that brings me to a bit of a dilemma.

Because I absolutely believe in the fall, and I think it actually happened and is not just a metaphor (a metaphor for what exactly? what about everything else then? no... it has to have happened). I think it might actually be easier (hard though it would be) to discredit science altogether than convince me the fall did not happen.

So... the chronology... disturbs me. First of all, a human being is an organic unity as far as I am concerned, I am pretty suspicious of Cartesian dualism. So what exactly happened? Was there a moment before the creature that would evolve into man was not quite there, then he reaches a particular stage of development, God puts a soul in? Does that make sense to you? It seems kind of ...odd, to me and way too dualismy.

How else might it have happened?

But it doesn't worry me too much, what really worries me is that evolution is a process that is effectively reliant upon death. Evolution doesn't really work without it, because without natural selection to weed out some creatures the whole thing doesn't work. All mutations would survive. Also, the very concept of mutation, it is reminiscent of corruption, but isn't the Fall the source of corruption.

So it seems to me like evolution is impossible without the fall, because evolution relies upon corruption and death, it feeds on those things.

...so... the only way I can figure it might happen, is that the fall not only gave corruption to the future, but also to the past, that sin corrupted the world like ripples through time that went in both directions.

Which sounds a bit sci-fi lol but I don't know... it's all I can think of.

I guess it doesn't matter too much, but I wondered if there were other solutions to these issues other people had thought of.

The story of evolution is a very badly written fiction novel since Darwin couldn't even describe his main characters. So he couldn't possibly know what they were capable of breeding. ^_^

So evolution is not only fiction, once you change Genesis 2:7 from; "For the Lord God formed the man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life" into; "For the Lord God formed the man from the wombs of some unknown animal" you have to change the whole bible so that it becomes totally unrecognizable for the following reasons::

1) It denies that God created man separately from the animals. So either evolutionists have to say that God was an animal since he created man in His image, or one can't believe that God created man in His image
2) One can't then know who the first man was or who his descendants were. Evolution thus, denies Adam and Eve, and thus all of their descendants including Jesus
3) It causes confusion over why man decays back into dust when he dies
4) It then has to throw out Romans 5:12-21 that Adam was the firstborn of the flesh, Jesus was the firstborn of the Spirit.
5) If the world is 4.5 billion years old, then each day of creation would have to have been at least a million years old which would have made Adam several million years old at the time of the fall.

And many, many more changes including the spiritual significance of Adam being the firstborn of the flesh and Christ being firstborn of the Spirit. So one cannot believe in evolution and the bible at the same time unless he changes the bible to make it say what his itching ears want to hear. In that case, we might as well throw out the bible and each person make up a bible and god of his imagination which would then be an imaginary god and not real.

Scientists are not infallible gods. They are fallible human beings who change their minds every generation. So one either believes God or he believes scientists. 1 Corinthians 3:16, "For the wisdom of the world is foolishness in God's sight." And few things prove that mroe than the story of evolution. :D
 
Upvote 0

Dark_Lite

Chewbacha
Feb 14, 2002
18,333
973
✟52,995.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
you have to change the whole bible so that it becomes totally unrecognizable for the following reasons::

1) It denies that God created man separately from the animals. So either evolutionists have to say that God was an animal since he created man in His image, or one can't believe that God created man in His image

Since when was man physically in God's image. God is not a physical being. He is purely spiritual. Following that, God made man in his spiritual image. The general consensus among theistic evolutionists that God created souls and put them into the evolving human species. That is the creation account right there.

2) One can't then know who the first man was or who his descendants were. Evolution thus, denies Adam and Eve, and thus all of their descendants including Jesus

It is extremely possible to have a literal Adam and Eve within a theistic evolution framework. See the single origin hypothesis.

3) It causes confusion over why man decays back into dust when he dies
4) It then has to throw out Romans 5:12-21 that Adam was the firstborn of the flesh, Jesus was the firstborn of the Spirit.

Why?

5) If the world is 4.5 billion years old, then each day of creation would have to have been at least a million years old which would have made Adam several million years old at the time of the fall.

And who says the days of Genesis have to be literal?

And many, many more changes including the spiritual significance of Adam being the firstborn of the flesh and Christ being firstborn of the Spirit. So one cannot believe in evolution and the bible at the same time unless he changes the bible to make it say what his itching ears want to hear. In that case, we might as well throw out the bible and each person make up a bible and god of his imagination which would then be an imaginary god and not real.

This is not the case. Evolution no more destroys the spiritual significance of Adam and Christ than does an apple taste like an orange. Adam and Eve can be viewed as all of humanity, or they can be viewed literally. This keeps everything in tact spiritually. You must decouple literalism and truth. To not do so creates the problems you think are real. The Bible is non-literal in so many places, and we can know that the creation account is one of those places based on the evidence in the creation.
 
Upvote 0

peace4ever

Newbie
Apr 14, 2006
456
27
✟23,276.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Since when was man physically in God's image. God is not a physical being. He is purely spiritual. Following that, God made man in his spiritual image. The general consensus among theistic evolutionists that God created souls and put them into the evolving human species. That is the creation account right there.



It is extremely possible to have a literal Adam and Eve within a theistic evolution framework. See the single origin hypothesis.



Why?



And who says the days of Genesis have to be literal?



This is not the case. Evolution no more destroys the spiritual significance of Adam and Christ than does an apple taste like an orange. Adam and Eve can be viewed as all of humanity, or they can be viewed literally. This keeps everything in tact spiritually. You must decouple literalism and truth. To not do so creates the problems you think are real. The Bible is non-literal in so many places, and we can know that the creation account is one of those places based on the evidence in the creation.

Wrong again. Genesis 2:7 doesn't say that God formed man out of the wombs of apes. So why do you throw out God's word and replace them with your own? Or do you believe that man's imagination is God? :eek: If so, then you are wrong again because man is not God. God is not a liar so His words never lie. There is no possible way to turn genesis 2:7 into: "For the Lord God formed the man out of the wombs of some unknown animal." When you distort the bible that badly, you might as well throw it away and make up your own bible.

Secondly, God's words never pass away but the words of men do. And no words exist from God that man came from the wombs of apes. So since human words are not eternal because they die when humans die, then the only words we will be left with for all of eternity are God's words.

You are also disagreeing with 1 Corinthians 4;6, "Do not go beyond what is written." So sorry, but if you claim that any of the words in the bible are untrue, then you are disagreeing with Jesus when he says that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. You are also disagreeing with; 2 Timothy 3:16. So so

So I'll go with God's word. You can live in your imagination.
 
Upvote 0

peace4ever

Newbie
Apr 14, 2006
456
27
✟23,276.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Yeah, um, anyway....

Guess you'd better stop using your computer, taking medicine (much of which is derived from evolutionary theory I might add), driving your car, and really any modern convenience. None of those are in the Bible either.

When scientists agree with God they're always right. When they disagree with God, they're always wrong. ;)You should know that if you claim to believe in God...or do you think that scientists are infallible and God isn't? :eek:
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.