Evoloution is Just Bad Science

Wonderfulcross · Mar 19, 2005

Asimov said:
Some of us aren't christians. And considering the way many christians act, I wouldn't want to act like one. I'd rather act like an atheist.

You can't judge Christianity based on a few people you met. And those Christians that act that way, are either not radically saved, or just new Christians.

Novaknight1 · Mar 19, 2005

jgarden said:
Creationism and evolution are largely irrelevant. If one believes in a God inspired universe, who cares about the timeline Why can't Christians who believe in evolution go to Heaven?

Because they say sin and death aren't related, so how can Jesus take the penalty for sin when there is none?

Btw, Theistic Evolutionists can go to heaven.

Asimov · Mar 19, 2005

Wonderfulcross said:
You can't judge Christianity based on a few people you met. And those Christians that act that way, are either not radically saved, or just new Christians.

I judge Christianity on the bible.

Asimov · Mar 19, 2005

Novaknight1 said:
Because they say sin and death aren't related, so how can Jesus take the penalty for sin when there is none?

The penalty for sin is hell. Everyone dies, Christian or not.

jesusfreak22 · Mar 19, 2005

But, Jesus died on the cross for those CHRISTIANS who belive in him will have a chance to live with him for eternity in heaven.

Bow down before the Lord! For as we bow, it shows a great sign of respect.

jesusfreak22 · Mar 19, 2005

by the way, could someone clue me in on Athiest belifes?

notto · Mar 19, 2005

jesusfreak22 said:
by the way, could someone clue me in on Athiest belifes?

You should probably try a different area of the board. This area is for the discussion of creationism and evolution.

gluadys · Mar 19, 2005

Novaknight1 said:
Because they say sin and death aren't related, so how can Jesus take the penalty for sin when there is none?

Btw, Theistic Evolutionists can go to heaven.

Somebody's been feeding you a line about theistic evolutionists. TEs don't say there is no sin, nor that there is no penalty for sin.

Arikay · Mar 19, 2005

Try the non christian religion forum, there was just an "Ask the atheist" thread there.

jesusfreak22 said:
by the way, could someone clue me in on Athiest belifes?

Asimov · Mar 19, 2005

jesusfreak22 said:
But, Jesus died on the cross for those CHRISTIANS who belive in him will have a chance to live with him for eternity in heaven.

Bow down before the Lord! For as we bow, it shows a great sign of respect.

Doesn't matter, you still die.

The death before sin concept is pretty flawed, and is only vaguely supported by out of twisted quotes.

Risen from the Dust · Mar 19, 2005

gluadys said:
Somebody's been feeding you a line about theistic evolutionists. TEs don't say there is no sin, nor that there is no penalty for sin.

gluadys is correct -- no conservative thiestic evolutionist that I've met would dare say there is no sin, neither that there isn't any penalty for it. From what I've been able to gather, instead, there seems to be a disinction between the effects of sin and when those effects prevailed upon humanity.

For example, most creationists (of almost all sorts) would contend that sin entered the garden when our first two parents transgressed the Lord's will. They would also argue that the wages of this sin was the suseptability to physical death. Some would not argue that all people were born spiritually damned from this inherited sin. Others, however, would.

On the other hand, most theistic evolutionists would contend that sin entered humanity's earliest ancestors (sometimes even implying literal personages). They would also argue that the wages of this sin was the suseptability to spiritual death. Most would argue that humanity had the capacity to perish before they transgressed the Lord's will -- that physical death is not necessarilly due to thier ancestor's transgression. Some others, however, would not.

I think this generally covers this distinction as best as I can grasp it -- tho I admit I might be wrong (some particular details may vary from believer to believer). Admitedly, these various views do constitute some difference between one's understanding of the Scriptures. But I do not think that the two views are so diametrically opposed as to cut off all reasonable dialogue between them.

gluadys · Mar 19, 2005

Risen from the Dust said:
gluadys is correct -- no conservative thiestic evolutionist that I've met would dare dare say there is no sin, neither that there isn't any penalty for it.

No liberal theistic evolutionist I've met either. There would be differences in understanding, but no disavowal of the fact of sin and its consequences.

Risen from the Dust · Mar 20, 2005

gluadys said:
No liberal theistic evolutionist I've met either. There would be differences in understanding, but no disavowal of the fact of sin and its consequences.

Yes. But there are some large variances in one's understanding of sin in some areas. For example, consider one of the hottest topics: abortion -- there are some groups who would contend that it is permissible and perhaps even encouraged in favor of liberty and freedom.

In an area such as this, if true, it seems to redefine the nature of "death" to the point that no potential life is even considered present in the womb -- that there is essentially nothing wrong in God's eyes with performing it. One can call it what they will, but the acceptance of such a practice, to me, is a disavowal of the fact of sin and its consequences.

In relation to the evolution/creation debate, in regards to humankind's origins, some creationists would argue that dismissing the physical implications of original sin is effectively aborting the theology of "God's perfection" in favor of the "natural sciences". In this sense, the theistic evolutionist is neither considered liberal nor conservative, but the innuendo thereof seems to be present in these debates nonetheless.

jesusfreak22 · Mar 20, 2005

Asimov said:
Doesn't matter, you still die.

The death before sin concept is pretty flawed, and is only vaguely supported by out of twisted quotes.

Yes, you still die, But, if you are a christian, you are forgiven the second you commit the sin. So, if you are christian and you die, you go to heaven, to live eternaly, in paradise, forever, get the point. BUT, if you are not christian and you die, you go to Hell, never to come back, forever burning. When you are in Hell you obvously don't die, so you burn in Hell forever. Have you ever been burnt by fire? It hurts, even for the second or two your hand is in it. Try doing that, and feeling that pain FOREVER!! That is the consenquence of not beleving.

michabo · Mar 20, 2005

jesusfreak22 said:
Yes, you still die, But, if you are a christian, you are forgiven the second you commit the sin. So, if you are christian and you die, you go to heaven, to live eternaly, in paradise, forever, get the point. BUT, if you are not christian and you die, you go to Hell, never to come back, forever burning.

What is this, Pascal's Wager?

There are big problems with this, as you'll discover if you seriously think about it. First, the whole scenario makes god an evil, immoral psychopath that will condem innocent people to torture forever for the sake of his own ego. That aside, there are obvious counters such as the simple observation that humans distinguish themselves from other animals by their capability to reason. If there was a god responsible for our development, surely he would reward those that followed their reason and rejected blind faith in favour of reason, so obviously christians would go to hell and atheists would go to paradise. (that's just as silly as your claim, but at least mine has observational support )

All of this is totally irrelevant to evolution as the great number of intelligent, devout christian evolutionists testifies to.

Asimov · Mar 20, 2005

jesusfreak22 said:
Yes, you still die...

Ok, end of story.

Arikay · Mar 20, 2005

Ah, yes, the good old, "Believe what I do or my God will hurt you." argument.
What are we, in third grade or something? Give me your milk money or i'll beat you up type of God?
(yes I know of all the arguments that those who believe in that type of God use to get around it, but the fact still remains, it's often used as a threat.)

gluadys · Mar 20, 2005

Risen from the Dust said:
Yes. But there are some large variances in one's understanding of sin in some areas. For example, consider one of the hottest topics: abortion -- there are some groups who would contend that it is permissible and perhaps even encouraged in favor of liberty and freedom.

Every liberal Christian I know would agree that abortion is an action a woman should never have to contemplate. The fact that millions of women do have to consider it is de facto evidence of the existence of sin and of the consequences of sin.

But let's not go off on a tangent here. I believe there is another forum more appropriate to this discussion.

JohnR7 · Mar 20, 2005

jesusfreak22 said:
Yes, you still die,

Not everyone will die. Some people will be transformed without ever having to taste death. Only sinners die.

JohnR7 · Mar 20, 2005

Risen from the Dust said:
no conservative thiestic evolutionist that I've met would dare say there is no sin,

There are people that believe that we can live free from sin. Jesus gave us an example on how to live. He went about preaching, teaching and healing.

Evoloution is Just Bad Science

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