Evil

[variant]

The Nazi's were occultists and were not even remotely Christian. Here is the research to demonstrate this for those who care to know the truth.

That would be a no true Scotsman fallacy, but also not on topic. All I have claimed is that the Natzi's believed God was on their side.

That they thought they were right.

 

[variant]

I'm pretty sure that there is a rule against killing small children. If you are talking about when the Isrealites were commanded to kill all the men, women and children in a place then yeah I think those are exceptions where God was looking at a certain group of people and saw that they were too far gone to be brought back, so He had them defeated and killed so they couldn't spread their evil any further.

I know that some people still think it's wrong, but from God's point of view it was a mercy on the rest of humanity to rid the world of cultures like that. But maybe I'm reading too much into your comment, I dunno... And I see know other standard for objective morality anywhere that could even hope to measure up. Do you believe that there is objective morality? Just curious...

Then there is not a rule about that.

Genocide is not immoral when God says it isn't.

So, here you are justifying genocide because someone said God commanded it.

Your next task is to tell me exactly how we can tell when God is ordering a genocide. Please tell us what standard we should use?

But anyway, thanks for demonstrating just how dangerous that people who believe they are good can be when they think God is on their side.

Do you believe that there is objective morality? Just curious...

No, I believe morality is how we work through our problems as people who live in societies, making it subjective.

I also think moral questions are too important to be given over to religious thinkers.

 

[variant]

Just a little curious, what would be your idea of a morally ambiguous situation? What sort of situations do you imagine finding yourself in that would be so enigmatic or uncertain that you wouldn't have a clear idea of what to do?

Can't think of morally ambiguous situations?

Put yourself in the land of canan.

Should you stand against Moses when he plans to slaughter children in the name of his God?

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

Then there is not a rule about that.

I think the no murdering thing is a rule against that...

Genocide is not immoral when God says it isn't.

So, here you are justifying genocide because someone said God commanded it.

Your next task is to tell me exactly how we can tell when God is ordering a genocide. Please tell us what standard we should use?

Easy, God isn't ordering genocide. Period.

You completely skip over the point about how God viewed it as a merciful act toward the rest of humanity. I think that it was so. I'm glad that a people such as that wasn't able to spread their seed any further than they did. They were nothing but evil, and that was why God had the Isrealites destroy them. If you want to keep calling it genocide then that's your prerogative, but I call it mercy. Wouldn't you cut off your diseased foot to save the rest of your body?

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

Can't think of morally ambiguous situations?

Put yourself in the land of canan.

Should you stand against Moses when he plans to slaughter children in the name of his God?

I don't see how that was morally ambiguous at all. Those people were evil and nothing but. The children were raised in evil too, and if they hadn't been destroyed then even one could have spread that to other places. Like a disease.

 

[variant]

I think the no murdering thing is a rule against that...

Not even close considering the guy who carried that rule down from the mountain is the one who ordered it.

Easy, God isn't ordering genocide. Period.

You completely skip over the point about how God viewed it as a merciful act toward the rest of humanity. I think that it was so. I'm glad that a people such as that wasn't able to spread their seed any further than they did. They were nothing but evil, and that was why God had the Isrealites destroy them. If you want to keep calling it genocide then that's your prerogative, but I call it mercy. Wouldn't you cut off your diseased foot to save the rest of your body?

Semantics now?

Yes, well, when someone comes for you and says that they think God would find it merciful if they killed you and your children to purge your evil from the world, try as hard as you can to consider that they might not be insane. I doubt you would be able to do it.

The problem is that you are arguing her side of the argument:

“kill the unbelievers wherever you find them”

 

[ToddNotTodd]

They were nothing but evil, and that was why God had the Isrealites destroy them. If you want to keep calling it genocide then that's your prerogative, but I call it mercy. Wouldn't you cut off your diseased foot to save the rest of your body?

Were the Amalekite babies evil? What about their sheep, were they evil?

 

[variant]

I don't see how that was morally ambiguous at all. Those people were evil and nothing but. The children were raised in evil too, and if they hadn't been destroyed then even one could have spread that to other places. Like a disease.

I know I would take pause at warlords slaughtering children in the name of their God.

You on the other hand are comfortable taking the winner's side of the story as gospel to the point of condemning people you never met to genocide with a clear conscience.

It goes to show you that religion and critical thought/ morality don't go hand in hand.

 

[variant]

Were the Amalekite babies evil? What about their sheep, were they evil?

Well, the male babies apparently, they kept the small women as breeding stock.

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

Not even close considering the guy who carried that rule down from the mountain is the one who ordered it.



Semantics now?

Yes, well, when someone comes for you and says that they think God would find it merciful if they killed you and your children to purge your evil from the world consider that they might not be insane.

Problem is, I'm not evil... Just saying.

And that doesn't happen in modern times, nor anytime after Jesus died and was ressurected, not atleast until the end of times. It is my personal belief that had God not purged the world of evil peoples like the Caananites then there may not have been a virgin left for Jesus to be born through. Had the Isrealites allowed any to live then they would have most likely bred with the Isrealites and spread that evil throughout a holy people, corrupting them. Since Jesus died and was resurrected God isn't doing that anymore, because He isn't punishing people at all. When Jesus died all sins were forgiven. All of them. Yours and mine and Hitlers and all. The only reason people end up in hell is their refusal to accept Jesus' forgiveness. Maybe I'm rambling, but I feel like I had to say all that.

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

Were the Amalekite babies evil? What about their sheep, were they evil?

yes

 

[variant]

Problem is, I'm not evil... Just saying.

No one thinks they are evil but, here you are convinced that God partakes in genocide and would have undertaken it with your own hands had you been present.

I'm guessing you are quite capable of serious evil. You know, because you are justifying genocide to protect your beliefs.

And that doesn't happen in modern times, nor anytime after Jesus died and was ressurected, not atleast until the end of times. It is my personal belief that had God not purged the world of evil peoples like the Caananites then there may not have been a virgin left for Jesus to be born through. Had the Isrealites allowed any to live then they would have most likely bred with the Isrealites and spread that evil throughout a holy people, corrupting them. Since Jesus died and was resurrected God isn't doing that anymore, because He isn't punishing people at all. When Jesus died all sins were forgiven. All of them. Yours and mine and Hitlers and all. The only reason people end up in hell is their refusal to accept Jesus' forgiveness. Maybe I'm rambling, but I feel like I had to say all that.

So, there are absolute standards that, um, change from time to time?

Genocides need to happen to make an all powerful God's plans work out? Cute.

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

I know I would take pause at warlords slaughtering children in the name of their God.

You on the other hand are comfortable taking the winner's side of the story as gospel to the point of condemning people you never met to genocide with a clear conscience.

It goes to show you that religion and critical thought/ morality don't go hand in hand.

If that's how you want to see it then that's your free choice I suppose...

Let's just forget about the bigger picture here, that obviously doesn't need any attention.

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

No one thinks they are evil but, here you are convinced that God partakes in genocide and would have undertaken it with your own hands had you been present.

I'm guessing you are quite capable of serious evil. You know, because you are justifying genocide to protect your beliefs.



So, there are absolute standards that, um, change from time to time?

Genocides need to happen to make an all powerful God's plans work out? Cute.

I'm glad you think that's cute... And no they don't change from time to time. It was punishment then, Jesus died and took the punishment for the rest of us, now we don't have to be punished like that for our evil deeds. And I'm quite sure every human is capable of evil, but that doesn't make me evil or you evil.

I'm capable of driving a car, that doesn't mean I'm driving a car... And no, I don't believe that it was evil. I don't think it's evil to take the life of a murderer were they trying to murder me. I'd do it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

 

[Huntun]

Corrupted races and tribes having an evil seed....Interbreeding with them would corrupt the divinely favored line.... Must exterminate the babies to in order to purify the earth..?

Did I walk in the Christian Identity/ Aryan Nation sub forum or something?

 

[variant]

If that's how you want to see it then that's your free choice I suppose...

Let's just forget about the bigger picture here, that obviously doesn't need any attention.

What bigger picture? You don't see any bigger picture when you are a person in the situation I placed you in.

As horrifying as your "genocides for the greater good" idea is, perhaps we just see a different "bigger picture".

I'm glad that you religious folks have outgrown your propensity to kill people who disagree with you. It makes you a lot easier to debate.

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

Corrupted races and tribes having an evil seed....Interbreeding with them would corrupt the divinely favored line.... Must exterminate the babies to in order to purify the earth..?

Did I walk in the Christian Identity/ Aryan Nation sub forum or something?

Well I don't so much agree with the aryan nation... I don't think that there is any longer a divinely favored line... And are we forgetting the whole "it was a punishment" thing?

 

[variant]

I'm glad you think that's cute... And no they don't change from time to time. It was punishment then, Jesus died and took the punishment for the rest of us, now we don't have to be punished like that for our evil deeds. And I'm quite sure every human is capable of evil, but that doesn't make me evil or you evil.

I'm capable of driving a car, that doesn't mean I'm driving a car...

Well cute in a horrifying way yes.

And no, I don't believe that it was evil. I don't think it's evil to take the life of a murderer were they trying to murder me. I'd do it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

Well, we were talking about defenseless children.

 

[Heir to the Kingdom]

What bigger picture? You don't see any bigger picture when you are a person in the situation I placed you in.

As horrifying as your "genocides for the greater good" idea is, perhaps we just see a different "bigger picture".

I'm glad that you religious folks have outgrown your propensity to kill people who disagree with you. It makes you a lot easier to debate.

Haha! That debate bit was honestly pretty funny

But actually the Christians never had a Biblical basis for that. That was the Isrealites, not Christians. And the bigger picture I see is that God is holy and He punished the evil of those people.

Agree to disagree I guess!

 

[variant]

Haha! That debate bit was honestly pretty funny

But actually the Christians never had a Biblical basis for that. That was the Isrealites, not Christians. And the bigger picture I see is that God is holy and He punished the evil of those people.

Agree to disagree I guess!

Christians weren't shy about killing unbelievers until pretty recently.