EVIL -- what is it? And how it is related to the FALL?

[kobuk]

Setting up the discussion are two articles found back to back on a news website...

Man brutally kills mother of two in random attack. In back of a church.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/14109091/detail.html

Pitbulls escape from fenced farm. Kill two elderly people out for a stroll on a beautiful sunny day.
http://www.wsoctv.com/video/14112078/index.html?source=CNN

There's a sensation i can't help but feel when i read news stories like this. It's a sense of grief that this world is so brutal. It was not always like this. The Garden of Eden was a paradise. We all know the story of THE FALL. But i'd like to introduce some thoughts that i've just had. I'm not lecturing or stating new doctrine here. I'm looking for conflict resolution i guess. I'm in grief from not just these two news reports but from the wretched condition of the entire world. Some of this is like the anguish the prophet Jeremiah felt in looking upon a very sinful jewish city. I could name other things it feels like.

Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the wretchedness described above? How do you deal with it? Ignore most of it? Counter it with good things? Have stalwort faith that nothing can ever budge? I guess i had better get stronger then.

There seems to be two seperate things going on. Evil caused by evil entities. I.E. Satan and the demons. Who we learned from the Bible were very active during the time of Yahshua. And certainly no less active today. Since Scripture says this evil will only increase near the end of time. We're certainly there in that last era. By the looks of events and all.

The other thing is all the negative effects of the Fall. This would be things like the man killing the women. And the pitbulls killing the people. The wickedness of some people causes them to degrade into brutal killers. The killer instinct of the dogs, something also not found in the Garden of Eden, is greatly amplified in pack mode. One animal charging up the instincts of the other. They taste blood and go berzerk. Like a starving wolf pack on a fresh kill.

Some will ask what's the point of this discussion. I think a goal would suffice. Reaching a greater understanding about our world's wretchedness would help me to find the best course through it's being all around us. Mentally and spiritually we can gain strength by having achieved a well rounded education in what it all means. At the moment i'm honestly still trying to piece it all together.

All i know for sure is that i'll never murder anyone and never seriously harm other people in a criminal way for whatever reason. Self defense look out! Within reason. Match the threat with the proper deterance. Shut it down in time. That's of course not evil but good for those protected and made safe.

Paradise was lost. We have to toughen up to face reality. I know that. You could discuss where you draw your strength if you wish. Only lets not jump my bones with a harsh critique of what i've just said. Show some fellowshipping skills around here. If you think i need to learn some myself (that's sure true). Lead by example.

 

[BigNorsk]

Hatred travels down through the ages. Take pit bulls they were bred to entertain people by watching animals fight and kill each other in a pit. It wasn't done to save livestock from predation, or anything of that type. It was done because people enjoy watching things fight to the death and gambling.

I notice the farm had 10 pitbull and bulldog crosses on it. Probably not the situation where the dogs were family pets. Likely still being bred and used to fight or kill either animals or they are popular with drug dealers to put them in where others aren't supposed to come.

I've known some pitbulls that were really good pets. But that's what they were, they weren't a pack of dogs they were part of the family.

And that pack thing is not to be discounted because once a pitbull starts to attack, which he's probably not anymore likely to start, but once he starts, he's been bred to continue until he kills. To keep fighting even if hurt or maimed, to continue himself until death. That characteristic is especially hazardous in a pack because it might be a miniature poodle that runs up and barks and nips at you and then the pitbull follows through.

The other story is basically one of how the government is often not living up to their responsibility to protect those under them. Often people who are dangerous and are known to be dangerous are returned to society.

In any case a newspaper is quite a read. One thing I notice is that many of the articles come down to a rich person sinning or a poor person sinning. For some reason, the middle class is largely missing from the news. They go about their lives, neither driven by poverty or greed, and it seems to me that middle class people just make a superior society to either rich or poor. The middle class avoid that love of money being the root of all sorts of evil thing to a greater extent than those on either end of the financial spectrum.

The world is a dangerous place, so far the number who make it out without dying is pretty small.

Marv

 

[Armistead]

Setting up the discussion are two articles found back to back on a news website...

Man brutally kills mother of two in random attack. In back of a church.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/14109091/detail.html

Pitbulls escape from fenced farm. Kill two elderly people out for a stroll on a beautiful sunny day.
http://www.wsoctv.com/video/14112078/index.html?source=CNN

There's a sensation i can't help but feel when i read news stories like this. It's a sense of grief that this world is so brutal. It was not always like this. The Garden of Eden was a paradise. We all know the story of THE FALL. But i'd like to introduce some thoughts that i've just had. I'm not lecturing or stating new doctrine here. I'm looking for conflict resolution i guess. I'm in grief from not just these two news reports but from the wretched condition of the entire world. Some of this is like the anguish the prophet Jeremiah felt in looking upon a very sinful jewish city. I could name other things it feels like.

Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the wretchedness described above? How do you deal with it? Ignore most of it? Counter it with good things? Have stalwort faith that nothing can ever budge? I guess i had better get stronger then.

There seems to be two seperate things going on. Evil caused by evil entities. I.E. Satan and the demons. Who we learned from the Bible were very active during the time of Yahshua. And certainly no less active today. Since Scripture says this evil will only increase near the end of time. We're certainly there in that last era. By the looks of events and all.

The other thing is all the negative effects of the Fall. This would be things like the man killing the women. And the pitbulls killing the people. The wickedness of some people causes them to degrade into brutal killers. The killer instinct of the dogs, something also not found in the Garden of Eden, is greatly amplified in pack mode. One animal charging up the instincts of the other. They taste blood and go berzerk. Like a starving wolf pack on a fresh kill.

Some will ask what's the point of this discussion. I think a goal would suffice. Reaching a greater understanding about our world's wretchedness would help me to find the best course through it's being all around us. Mentally and spiritually we can gain strength by having achieved a well rounded education in what it all means. At the moment i'm honestly still trying to piece it all together.

All i know for sure is that i'll never murder anyone and never seriously harm other people in a criminal way for whatever reason. Self defense look out! Within reason. Match the threat with the proper deterance. Shut it down in time. That's of course not evil but good for those protected and made safe.

Paradise was lost. We have to toughen up to face reality. I know that. You could discuss where you draw your strength if you wish. Only lets not jump my bones with a harsh critique of what i've just said. Show some fellowshipping skills around here. If you think i need to learn some myself (that's sure true). Lead by example.

The fall was ordained by God..Eden was never meant to be our eternal home.

Certainly, when Satan fell, God could have destroyed him, he did not.

God didn't even take his powers, but let him keep them.
Had God taken away Satan powers, how different things
would have been, but he did not.

Then God placed him where..the same planet he placed man on.. now we already have evil on earth.

Add the tree of knowledge...the temptation.

It is clear that God ordained the fall to bring about freewill. It's absurd to think old Satan could ruin all of God's plan. Take away one piece of the puzzle, man would have never fallen.

The evil is in how we choose to use the knowledge.

I see no info that the fall corrupted the nature of animals..they are just that. When humans are irresponsible, these terrible things happen. Human on the other hand...can and do choose evil.

Christ gave us the commandment to love God and others. He actually went further..he said loving others
fulfills all the law and the prophets. Paul said "love does no ill to a neighbor, thus it fulfills all the law."

We live by one law today..it defines sin and holiness. To love God and others...to seek to do no harm. If people would do that, instead of creating legalism...the world would be a much better place.

 

[kobuk]

I see no info that the fall corrupted the nature of animals..they are just that.

I differ in opinion on this very peripheral issue. Though i'm still far from putting all the pieces to the puzzle together on this.

I'm beginning to "feel" some strong reactions to predation. Anyone who watches any TV, movies or YouTube can watch for instance a large nile crocodiles grabbing a large hoofed type animal and rip it to shreds after grabbing it and pulling it underwater to drown it.

I recently saw the movie "Prey"(2007). A wife and two kids go on a road tour in the African bush. The son has to take a dump and then a lion grabs the safari guide. Tears him to shreds. Blood splatters the truck windows. etc.

Online you can see a real life incident of a lion killing a tourist who just got too close while photographing it.

I can't get dogmatic about it. It's just a growing revultion and sense that predation is an abomination. Hard to explain. I know all about the argument that it's all just the way things are in nature. Well. Eden was a paradise and Adam and Eve never had to fear being eaten by a predator. So since the Fall things have drastically changed. Tough to sort out these puzzle pieces.