Evil & Suffering

[Woogyman]

Evil & Suffering

How do you all reconcile the extent of suffering in the world with the idea of a loving, all powerful God? Especially the suffering of those in 3rd world countries who are hit by famine and disease in a way we never have to experience. Why would God allow this? Also why is there animal suffering?
Is there a purpose to our suffering?
Is it created/allowed by God?
Is it the devil?

Stephan.

 

[Spherical Time]

I can't. That's one of the main reasons that I'm not a Christian.

 

[Pogue]

If I were to lose my faith, the presense of evil and suffering in the world would be the reason. I just believe that there must be a purpose for it, but one that we cannot know. Suffering without a purpose seems very inconsistent with a benevolent god. But you could say the same about suffering with a purpose. I don't believe that suffering is some kind of divine punishment, due to the extent and uneven distribution of suffering. But I do think it's one of those things which we'll never be able to know about- we can only speculate.

 

[coyoteBR]

How do you all reconcile the extent of suffering in the world with the idea of a loving, all powerful God? Especially the suffering of those in 3rd world countries who are hit by famine and disease in a way we never have to experience. Why would God allow this?

The same way I reconvile the fact we know all that happen and yet, we do so little for others. God Gave us the commandment: love your neighbour. Feed and cloth the needed. Visit the inferms. And, now and then, God "Shakes Up" some of us to start doing His Will here on earth.

Saul of Tarsus was probably one of the first and more clear cases of those "God's Wake-up Calls", when he said "Lord, now I see. What do You Want me to do?"

If there is suffering, is due our free-will. And if the suffering doesnt stops, id due our free-will, too

Also why is there animal suffering?
Is there a purpose to our suffering?

Heh? What is "animal suffering"? You mean the circle of nature?
I saw a program at NatGeo those days. About the desertification of the Yellostone Park, at USofA. Plants and trees were not growing, the rivers start to suffer from erosion. Nobody know why. Untill they discovered there were no Wolves anymore on that park. They bring the predators back. now, the heards of the park don't have time to eat a plant to their roots, allowing more of'em to grow, Also, their carcass work as a great fertilizer. With more plants, more birds and little animals started to appear, etc.

So, again... Nature Laws, created by God, that allow this planet to have life on it.

Is it created/allowed by God?
Is it the devil?

Nah, aside of the two forces I mentioned... Laws of Nature and human Free-will... there is nothing else causing that phenomena you mentioned.

 

[LittleNipper]

If I were to lose my faith, the presense of evil and suffering in the world would be the reason. I just believe that there must be a purpose for it, but one that we cannot know. Suffering without a purpose seems very inconsistent with a benevolent god. But you could say the same about suffering with a purpose. I don't believe that suffering is some kind of divine punishment, due to the extent and uneven distribution of suffering. But I do think it's one of those things which we'll never be able to know about- we can only speculate.

Well, from everything I've read in the Bible, the ONLY way to get rid of pain and suffering under in a sin infested world , would be to eradicate everyone who made anyone else cry. Who would be left?

No, I'm very happy that GOD set up things the perfect way HE did under the circumstances. Besides, I'm sure we make GOD unhappy. So how could anyone be conformed to the image of JESUS CHRIST if only GOD suffered?

 

[NateBlack]

Look at Pat Robertson's views... be sure and watch the video clips...

Religious conservatives claim Katrina was God's omen, punishment for the United States

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:27PM

Robertson: "f I heard the Lord right about 2006, the coasts of America will be lashed by storms"

Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:21PM

Robertson blamed Sharon stroke on policy of "dividing God's land"

Thursday, January 5, 2006 2:54PM

Pat Robertson's contradictory theology: God won't stop a tsunami -- but might respond to Gay Days with an earthquake

Monday, May 2, 2005 3:34PM

Robertson: God "will remove judges from the Supreme Court quickly"

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 6:56PM

 

[Kgreg]

It isn't God's fault. It's humanity's

God is perfect and all He does it perfect. We are the ones who've messed everything up, with our sin.

All the suffering in the world is the result of someone's sin somewhere. Its very presence in the world because of our selfish disobedience is what has corrupted the world.

Could God wave His hand and end all the suffering in an instance? Of course, He's God, but that's not a part of what He's put in place, and because He's God, He gets to make the rules. It's better to go along with His rules in everything. It's when we don't go along, and rebel against Him, that bad things start happening.

People say the don't understand why a loving God would let bad things happen to good people. Well, this is a very humanistic point of view. From a human point of view, there are "good" and "bad" people. Some people are better than others.

From God's point of view, there are no good people. Shocking? It shouldn't be. We are all wretched, selfish, totally depraved, disobedient creatures. All of us, even my dear, sweet grandma. She's a sinner too, just like everyone else, and just as in need of salvation from her sins as anyone. None of us is "good" by God's standards. Some of us are just forgiven and charged with trying to make the world a better place and turn away from our sin.

The only hope for people is a relationship with Jesus so that they can live as close to possible as God intended.

 

[NateBlack]

It isn't God's fault. It's humanity's

God is perfect and all He does it perfect. We are the ones who've messed everything up, with our sin.

All the suffering in the world is the result of someone's sin somewhere. Its very presence in the world because of our selfish disobedience is what has corrupted the world.

Could God wave His hand and end all the suffering in an instance? Of course, He's God, but that's not a part of what He's put in place, and because He's God, He gets to make the rules. It's better to go along with His rules in everything. It's when we don't go along, and rebel against Him, that bad things start happening.

People say the don't understand why a loving God would let bad things happen to good people. Well, this is a very humanistic point of view. From a human point of view, there are "good" and "bad" people. Some people are better than others.

From God's point of view, there are no good people. Shocking? It shouldn't be. We are all wretched, selfish, totally depraved, disobedient creatures. All of us, even my dear, sweet grandma. She's a sinner too, just like everyone else, and just as in need of salvation from her sins as anyone. None of us is "good" by God's standards. Some of us are just forgiven and charged with trying to make the world a better place and turn away from our sin.

The only hope for people is a relationship with Jesus so that they can live as close to possible as God intended.

So your version is we're all basically evil zombies until, God willing, we complete the 16 steps of salvation and become lovable to God again. (anyone see "24 Days" or any other zombie/virus movies...)

My view is that we're all more like the fabulous four that join Dorothy on their way to see the wizard. We may not be living our best lives, for whatever reason. We may be doing things that cause harm to others. We may feel inadequate, unlovable and unworthy of God. But the truth is... that at our core, we all have that divine spark, that innocent purity. My relationship with God isn't about becoming worthy enough for God... I am His kid, after all. It's about growing more and believing more in God's love for me & plans for my life. My journey is to be able to see myself and others the way God looks at us. That's when miracles happen.

I definitely prefer munchkins to zombies! I actually met two munchkins!

 

[LittleNipper]

Look at Pat Robertson's views... be sure and watch the video clips...

Religious conservatives claim Katrina was God's omen, punishment for the United States

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:27PM

Robertson: "f I heard the Lord right about 2006, the coasts of America will be lashed by storms"

Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:21PM

Robertson blamed Sharon stroke on policy of "dividing God's land"

Thursday, January 5, 2006 2:54PM

Pat Robertson's contradictory theology: God won't stop a tsunami -- but might respond to Gay Days with an earthquake

Monday, May 2, 2005 3:34PM

Robertson: God "will remove judges from the Supreme Court quickly"

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 6:56PM

I take what Pat Robertson says with a grain of salt. Does GOD ever allow terrible things to happen to punish? Have I ever spanked my son? Was I ever spanked? Were you?

Acts 12:21-23

And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them. And the people gave a shout saying, "It is the voice of a god, and not of a man." And immediately the angel of the LORD smote him, because he gave not GOD the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

 

[michabo]

Blame the victim, that's great, Kreg.


From what I recall, the problem is this:

If God is unable to alleviate suffering, then he is not powerful enough to deserve worship.

If God is unwilling to alleviate suffering, then he is not caring and doesn't deserve worship.

If Kreg wants to say "humanity's fault", he's implicitly saying that God is unwilling to do anything about it and I think that means it isn't worthy.

 

[NateBlack]

I take what Pat Robertson says with a grain of salt.

That is great news!

Acts 12:21-23

And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them. And the people gave a shout saying, "It is the voice of a god, and not of a man." And immediately the angel of the LORD smote him, because he gave not GOD the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Zombies, anyone?

 

[LittleNipper]

My view is that we're all more like the fabulous four that join Dorothy on their way to see the wizard. We may not be living our best lives, for whatever reason. We may be doing things that cause harm to others. We may feel inadequate, unlovable and unworthy of God. But the truth is... that at our core, we all have that divine spark, that innocent purity. My relationship with God isn't about becoming worthy enough for God... I am His kid, after all. It's about growing more and believing more in God's love for me & plans for my life. My journey is to be able to see myself and others the way God looks at us. That's when miracles happen.

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing. and all our righteousnes as used menstrual rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

I believe you first need to be willing to accept you are a sinner in need .

 

[elman]

Evil & Suffering

How do you all reconcile the extent of suffering in the world with the idea of a loving, all powerful God? Especially the suffering of those in 3rd world countries who are hit by famine and disease in a way we never have to experience. Why would God allow this? Also why is there animal suffering?
Is there a purpose to our suffering?
Is it created/allowed by God?
Is it the devil?

Stephan.

I don't believe all suffering is evil. Some suffering is the consequences of evil which I define as unloving actions. Some suffering is the cosequence of being mortal in a physical world where everyone suffers and dies physically. All suffering is an opportunity for love to be shown and some suffering is a part of who we are and who we have become as human beings.

 

[NateBlack]

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing. and all our righteousnes as used menstrual rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

I believe you first need to be willing to accept you are a sinner in need .

Gross and EWWW and Gross! Out of all the verses you had to choose from, you picked that one??

edit: For the life of me, I can't figure out why I am confusing Kgreg with Little Nip. per.

 

[Kgreg]

Blame the victim, that's great, Kreg.


From what I recall, the problem is this:

If God is unable to alleviate suffering, then he is not powerful enough to deserve worship.

If God is unwilling to alleviate suffering, then he is not caring and doesn't deserve worship.

If Kreg wants to say "humanity's fault", he's implicitly saying that God is unwilling to do anything about it and I think that means it isn't worthy.

This is humanism, not theology.

 

[Kgreg]

So your version is we're all basically evil zombies until, God willing, we complete the 16 steps of salvation and become lovable to God again. (anyone see "24 Days" or any other zombie/virus movies...)

My view is that we're all more like the fabulous four that join Dorothy on their way to see the wizard. We may not be living our best lives, for whatever reason. We may be doing things that cause harm to others. We may feel inadequate, unlovable and unworthy of God. But the truth is... that at our core, we all have that divine spark, that innocent purity. My relationship with God isn't about becoming worthy enough for God... I am His kid, after all. It's about growing more and believing more in God's love for me & plans for my life. My journey is to be able to see myself and others the way God looks at us. That's when miracles happen.

I definitely prefer munchkins to zombies! I actually met two munchkins!

You should go join the Quakers.

 

[NateBlack]

You should go join the Quakers.

Is that suppossed to be an insult? God bless the Quakers!

 

[Pogue]

No, I'm very happy that GOD set up things the perfect way HE did under the circumstances. Besides, I'm sure we make GOD unhappy. So how could anyone be conformed to the image of JESUS CHRIST if only GOD suffered?

See, for me that doesn't explain why suffering is so unevenly distributed. Couldn't God have created a world where the retribution for your sins is directly proportional to those sins? Because it doesn't seem at all fair that I haven't suffered as much as I should have, but that there are good people who face terrible poverty and starvation. It's fine to say that they'll get their reward in heaven, and I'll get my punishment in purgatory or hell, but if that's true, then why have suffering in the world in the first place? Isn't there enough in the world?

 

[michabo]

This is humanism, not theology.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Why not quote something more appropriate or elaborate.

 

[Kgreg]

Is that suppossed to be an insult? God bless the Quakers!

No.