Evidences for evolution

Heath Anderson · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by unworthyone

You don't know what you are talking about. This is the typical elitist response.

It's not an elitist response at all - I'm simply pointing out that your argument has no merits - you're making things up (ie that God made and remade the world 4-5 times before He made Man) to validate yourself. Here's a very simple question:

In terms of science, what is wrong with the Theory of Evolution. Since Evolution does not address religion or the Supernatural, PLEASE do not talk about God or The Bible. If you're going to query Evolution, query it with Science, rather than religion, and I'll be happy to engage in debate.

Heath
PS I do not what I'm talking about. I'm an evolutionary biologist by profession.

TheBear · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K

That same thing that created the universe and the laws that govern it. If you want to call that thing "God", that is certainly your prerogative.

The acceptance of evolution does not preclude the belief in a supernatural creator. It never has, and never will. But, like all facts in the natural world, it does provide evidence of how this possible creator decided to do things.

Agreed. I am one who believes that creation is fact, and that the creation of life forms, through an evolutionary process is fact. I see no conflicts. The deatils of the mechanism of evolution is the only thing that needs further study and clarification. Gravity is a fact. And, before it was further studied and clarified by Newton and others, the apple did not suspend in mid-air.

John

Heath Anderson · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn
Question: if evolution exists, who created it?

This question often puzzles a lot of people, but then you have to ask - if evolution (the change in the genetic characteristics of a population) is caused by raw natural forces (mutation plus environmental pressure/change) WHY does it need a WHO to create it? There is no who involved. Evolution is a process that results from interaction in the environment - it has no impetus, nor no guidance.

unworthyone · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Heath Anderson
If you're going to query Evolution, query it with Science, rather than religion, and I'll be happy to engage in debate.
Heath
PS I do not what I'm talking about. I'm an evolutionary biologist by profession.

I'll just stick with an ignorant mind and a loving heart. If it takes a Ph. D to understand it, its too much effort. Things are a lot more important like God for example.

Evolution will never have the answers I solely need. Such as how do you know it evolved? How do you know what was first, the eye or the brain? etc...

The chance factor isn't good support IMO.

Ray K · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by unworthyone

I'll just stick with an ignorant mind and a loving heart. If it takes a Ph. D to understand it, its too much effort.

I am neither a Ph.D nor an evolutionary biologist. I read. If you would like to read something, I recommend "River out of Eden" by Richard Dawkins.

Things are a lot more important like God for example.

But don't you think that understanding natural laws might give you insight into what your God's overall plan might be? If we do have a creator, maybe he used evolution as a way to let us know that we are related to all life on this planet, not just humans, and that being our "brother's keeper" has a broader meaning.

That makes a lot more sense than rewriting Genesis because evolution conflicts with what you were taught in Sunday School.

Evolution will never have the answers I solely need. Such as how do you know it evolved? How do you know what was first, the eye or the brain? etc...

Those are the answers that you need? OK

1) it evolved because all geological and genetic evidence supports the theory
2) the eye

Now you can move onto less important questions.

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear

Agreed. I am one who believes that creation is fact, and that the creation of life forms, through an evolutionary process is fact. I see no conflicts. The deatils of the mechanism of evolution is the only thing that needs further study and clarification. Gravity is a fact. And, before it was further studied and clarified by Newton and others, the apple did not suspend in mid-air.

John

But, John, the earth is suspended in mid-air.

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Heath Anderson

This question often puzzles a lot of people, but then you have to ask - if evolution (the change in the genetic characteristics of a population) is caused by raw natural forces (mutation plus environmental pressure/change) WHY does it need a WHO to create it? There is no who involved. Evolution is a process that results from interaction in the environment - it has no impetus, nor no guidance.

I believe in God, so I know that God made everything happen. But if you say that God didn't do it, then who did? But if you say that God did do it, then show me some scriptures.

If your last line of defense is "who cares who did it", then what's the point of debating about evolution.

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K
But, like all facts in the natural world, it does provide evidence of how this possible creator decided to do things.

You want to show me some scriptures of this fact?

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear
Agreed. I am one who believes that creation is fact, and that the creation of life forms, through an evolutionary process is fact. I see no conflicts.

What you don't see with your eye, don't witness with your mouth.

TheBear · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn

But, John, the earth is suspended in mid-air.

Wrong.

TheBear · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn

What you don't see with your eye, don't witness with your mouth.

Then gravity does not exist, magnetism does not exist, electricity does not exist, air does not exist, radio waves do not exist, and God does not exist. Heck, you don't even exist, because I can't see you with my own eyes.

John

Ray K · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn

You want to show me some scriptures of this fact?

"Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin, 1859.

Ray K · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear

Then gravity does not exist, magnetism does not exist, electricity does not exist, air does not exist, radio waves do not exist, and God does not exist. Heck, you don't even exist, because I can't see you with my own eyes.

John

John, thanks for the support. While I am an atheist, in no way do I think that evolution is some kind of proof against a creator. It was not evolution that made me an atheist. I see very little conflict in believing in a creator and accepting the fact that all life on Earth shares a common descent.

In fact, the "Intelligent Design" theory concedes the fact of common descent. Michael Behe, the modern founder of ID, is an evolutionist! I think a lot of creationists, in their zeal to find any kind of religious explanation for life, don't seem to realize that very important point.

TheBear · Apr 11, 2002

Agreed, Ray.

As noted on another website, even if the evidence shows a 99.99999999% probability, the stuborne Creationist would still say something like, "Aha! There is a .00000001% chance that you are wrong! Therefore, I'm gonna stick with what I believe.

John

unworthyone · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K
Those are the answers that you need? OK
1) it evolved because all geological and genetic evidence supports the theory
2) the eye

1)Support is nice. My Mom supports me so I can be President one day, and because of this support it will happen!
2)If it had no brain how did it know to continue making the eye?

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear

Then gravity does not exist, magnetism does not exist, electricity does not exist, air does not exist, radio waves do not exist, and God does not exist. Heck, you don't even exist, because I can't see you with my own eyes.

John

Take it that far if that's what you want. Witness to me something that happened 20 years ago, and I probably will believe you because I'll take a little bit of faith and trust that you were there and saw what happened. But surely you can't expect me to believe in something happened millions of years ago, when you weren't even there to be an eye witness. And everything that you have to argue for are just theories.

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by Ray K

"Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin, 1859.

Who is he? He's not one of the apostle, is he?

ThienAn · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear
Agreed, Ray.

As noted on another website, even if the evidence shows a 99.99999999% probability, the stuborne Creationist would still say something like, "Aha! There is a .00000001% chance that you are wrong! Therefore, I'm gonna stick with what I believe.

John

I'll live to be 60, maybe 80, maybe even 100. Compare that to your million years of evolution, I think I'll only participate in about say.... 0.0000000001% of the evolution process. With that small chance, I don't think I'm going to growth a sixth finger, or a third eye by the time I die. Heck, I'll just spend my time & effort serving the will of the Lord, because when He comes back, the knowledge of this world doesn't matter.

Ray K · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by unworthyone

1)Support is nice. My Mom supports me so I can be President one day, and because of this support it will happen!
2)If it had no brain how did it know to continue making the eye?

The brain does not direct evolution, nor does it control tissue growth. That's the job of the DNA.

Besides, the first eyes were simply light-sensitive cells, so it's doubtful that you'd recognize it as an eye. They were not that complex.

Good luck being president. It's a tough job!

Ray K · Apr 11, 2002

Originally posted by ThienAn

I'll live to be 60, maybe 80, maybe even 100. Compare that to your million years of evolution, I think I'll only participate in about say.... 0.0000000001% of the evolution process. With that small chance, I don't think I'm going to growth a sixth finger, or a third eye by the time I die. Heck, I'll just spend my time & effort serving the will of the Lord, because when He comes back, the knowledge of this world doesn't matter.

You really do have a misunderstanding of evolution.

Species evolve, not individuals. When you have children that are not exact clones of yourself, then you have made your only contribution to the evolution of the human species.

Evidences for evolution

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