Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Ok, but for the record, I don't want to convert people to my theology, I want to convert them to their theology, their own unique experience of finding the prepersonal God; unity, not uniformity.
Since you want this to be out in the open... Here goes...When you say "I spend a great deal of my early 20s believing nothing.", I don't know what to make of that.
You are 28. Your early twenties are not so long ago. "A great deal" isn't even all of your "early twenties". I on the other hand have been "believing nothing" (and I wouldn't describe it that way) for a lot longer than you are alive.
So now this discussion has been reduced to a mindset of "you can't join my atheist club all you posers!" I thought you were so much older and more wise?I have found that most believers tend to have a slightly screwed view on their previous position. I have talked to people who said they had been "atheists" before now becoming "born again"... and had been just standard, majority, church-raised, bible-school-adhering, not-totally-taking-it-serious christian teenagers.
Were they "atheists"? Did they "believe in nothing"? Well, perhaps... but not in the way I would describe myself.
If I even become a Christian, my posts here will still be there, for everbody to see what I questioned and what I believed "before". I wish such documentation would exist for a lot more people.
And the countless people who have been helped... They don't matter because it doesn't fit in your ideas right? Christians could never do anything good right? But skepticism is what love, healing, happiness, and kindness are all about I suppose?(And evidently don't work. There are some interesting studies about the success rates of AA)
and your evidence beyond it being your "personal experience"? Pass. My experience has shown differently.Just so much: yes, I agree that faith creates change within you. But, based on experience with a lot of different "faiths", I think I can say that is is indeed the act of "faith" that enables this change... irrelevant of the object of this faith.
we actually agree on something.As I see it, people are people. Whatever they do in "good" or "bad" comes from within, from themselves. A "good Christian" is a good person who happens to be a Christian. An "evil atheist" is an evil person who happens to be an atheist.
to claim there was an inventor and not THE Creator, you would have to prove where faith in the God of Abraham came from and that it was not through Devine revelation but through man himself. You are making a very large, and negative claim, for something you have so little evidence of. "invent" ha! .That may be one of these personal experiences that make the difference between you and Colter and me: I recognized that the existence of a question does not necessarily imply the existence of an answer. And I recognized that inventing answers for meaningless questions might provide comfort, but not truth.
Than you clearly did not pay attention to what you read. That or peace, joy, love, kindness, forgiveness... Are values you do not hold high.I know that this is a big "no, no!" around Christian (and even non-Christians)... but I did never see Jesus as such a huge thing. If this is the "best example of how a Christian ought to be", I don't think they are aiming very hight. (and, yes, I did read the Bible ;()
I'd like to continue this conversation, by PM if you need to, but I'd prefer this public space.
Ideas and opinions should be out in the open, to be seen and scrutinized by everyone.
Since you want this to be out in the open...
*** snip ***
I hope in future discussions that our conversation is more productive. Take care.
To the rest of the posters, I will not be responding further on the issue.
There really is no reason to be that touchy. If you have any problems with my posts, just ask. I really don't mean to offend... it is not necessary to jump to negative conclusions instantly.
If you are still interesting in any kind of communication, I am here.
If not... have a nice life.
Well... I didn't. Read my post again. I think I made it quite clear that I don't condemn you, for your age or your claims or whatever. I just pointed out that I might have different experiences (yes, even due to my being older than you... that shouldn't be a question of dispute), and that I have my reasons (which I presented) for not accepting your story on face value.Who is the touchy one? The one who finds fault in the first post or the one who finds fault in the second?
I dare say no need for you to get "all touchy" and "jump to negative conclusions" about my post.
Have you ever considered the log in your own eye?Yet another example of how this board needs to change when communicating with each other. double standards should not be so frequent.
Lol i never deny my "logs" and own up T them quite frequently, on this board as well.Well... I didn't. Read my post again. I think I made it quite clear that I don't condemn you, for your age or your claims or whatever. I just pointed out that I might have different experiences (yes, even due to my being older than you... that shouldn't be a question of dispute), and that I have my reasons (which I presented) for not accepting your story on face value.
On the other hand, managed to make that out as a "battle" between us, accuse me of wanting to "put you to place", discard without consideration my own experiences, and tell me what kind of things I obviously do not value.
Jumping to conclusions, I call that.
Have you ever considered the log in your own eye?
As I said, I am still here. I am always open to serious conversation... I am usually quite reasonable and polite, so if there is anything that you think is an attack on your person... just ask how I meant that!.
Don't start with "Obviously you just don't understand and you are a bad person!" (Not a direct quote, but I'd say you know what original I was aiming at.)
Yes, I can definitly see how you do that right now.Lol i never deny my "logs" and own up T them quite frequently, on this board as well.
Yes, I have a huge reputation as a meanie to hold up on this forum.Again, who is getting touchy?
I am merely pointing out the double standards. I am not denying what is expected of Christians, merely pointing out that none of you "play by your own rules".
But I'm touchy? Right.id suggest you reevaluate how you communicate with others, because if you are genuine in what you say, it doesn't show. And I am not the only one who has said this.
Well... have a nice life.Take care-or as you put it-have a nice life (and you weren't being touchy?)
Am I not clear? How much more clear can I be? I do NOT claim to have PROOF of my faith, my God that would satisfy you. I cannot prove the existence of God beyond a doubt for you. But I know him, he's way cool!
And btw, in my theology, the only thing my resurrection on the Mansion worlds will add to me is the fact of survival, God will still be a matter of faith. A resurrected person could reason that the intelligent beings of the celestial world are just as naturally occurring as atheist claim man is on earth from uncaused evolution.
In my theology Lucifer himself lost faith in the unseen father and launched an ideological war in heaven against the rule of the Father in the Son.
You are confused, I don't owe you any evidence of the existence of my God and you don't owe me any evidence of a Godless universe. I can't prove God and you can't disprove God.
You keep claiming that you have evidence, and that atheists are ignoring or purposefully blind to that evidence. When you make such a claim, it is incumbent on you to present that evidence.
That's not exactly what I have said.
I have a relationship with God, I know his presence, but I don't have any proof of that sufficient for you. You would have to seek God yourself to find what I have found. But even then you would be unable to provide evidence of that sufficient to convince other nonbelievers.
When you claim to have knowledge, it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate that knowledge. Also, if the evidence would not convince me, then it shouldn't convince you, either. The concept of evidence is the same for all people.
When you claim to have knowledge, it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate that knowledge. Also, if the evidence would not convince me, then it shouldn't convince you, either. The concept of evidence is the same for all people.
That's not exactly what I have said.
IMO, not exactly so. This is a discussion board. It's not an oral examination.
Unless the poster is saying something absolutely incredible, the reader who is already conversant with the issues should give the other person some credit without immediately demanding "evidence." There are exceptions, of course, but I can't identify with those folks who make "Prove it!" their go-to response to almost any comment they don't agree with.
"I have a relationship with God, I know his presence,"
If you had said that you believe through faith that you have a relationship with God, then that would be different. You didn't say that. You claimed something more concrete than faith and belief. You claimed knowledge.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?