Evidence that homosexuality is wrong..?

[RMDY]

Oh.

Well, thats a false statement then. Clearly homosexuality is inherent in God's design.

We all came from one man and one women. They became fruitful and multiplied. Homosexuality did not originate with them.

 

[RMDY]

You have repeatedly called it perverted. This is an insult and, thus, qualifies as 'casting stones'.

Casting stones is where you condemn someone to death. Adam and Eve were good, until they sinned and they were cast out of the garden. Then, they became fruitful and multiplied. Adam's son was created in the image of Adam, a sinner. From sin came homosexuality. Adam and Eve weren't homosexuals, so it was not part of God's original design.

Homosexuality perverts this idea by saying it isn't sin and part of God's design when it wasn't. That is twisting the truth to advocate a lie. Satan is the father of lies.

To pervert means to:

per·vert play_w("P0214600") (p

r-vûrt

)tr.v. per·vert·ed, per·vert·ing, per·verts 1. To cause to turn away from what is right, proper, or good; corrupt.
2. To bring to a bad or worse condition; debase.
3. To put to a wrong or improper use; misuse. See Synonyms at corrupt.
4. To interpret incorrectly; misconstrue or distort: an analysis that perverts the meaning of the poem.

n. (pûr

vûrt

) One who practices sexual perversion.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear EnemyPartyII

God doesn't think the Bible is important, he thinks humans are important. So, to answer your question..

How do you know God thinks humans are important, how do you know how important God thinks humans are? If not form the Bible? If from the Bible then God must think the Bible is important. Don’t you know that Jesus cited the scriptures and said that they point to Him. Don’t you believe Jesus said he was speaking for the Father God?

Because the parts of the Bible written about homosexuality refer to a time when it was a maladaptive practice, due to the subsistance economy of semi nomadic herders...

On the contrary if you read the Bible properly you will see that same-sex sex is condemned as something God’s people shouldn’t do throughout the Biblical times.

The Bible is a GUIDE, it is NOT literally the word of God....

Of course te Bible is a guide but it also records the words of Jesus who was speaking the words of the Father. You cant make such a legalistic generalisation.
John 14:24 “He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

 

[EnemyPartyII]

We all came from one man and one women. They became fruitful and multiplied. Homosexuality did not originate with them.

then where DOES homosexuality orignate from?

Are you sincerely telling me that the Adam and Eve story sets the paradigm for all human relationships?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How do you know God thinks humans are important, how do you know how important God thinks humans are? If not form the Bible? If from the Bible then God must think the Bible is important. Don’t you know that Jesus cited the scriptures and said that they point to Him. Don’t you believe Jesus said he was speaking for the Father God?

God thinks humans are important. We know this because he sent his only begoten son to die for us.

He didn't send his only begotten son to die for the Bible.

Biblical literalists who value legalism before humanity make baby Jesus cry.

On the contrary if you read the Bible properly you will see that same-sex sex is condemned as something God’s people shouldn’t do throughout the Biblical times.

Riiiight... because, as I say... "Because the parts of the Bible written about homosexuality refer to a time when it was a maladaptive practice, due to the subsistance economy of semi nomadic herders... "

Of course te Bible is a guide but it also records the words of Jesus who was speaking the words of the Father. You cant make such a legalistic generalisation.
John 14:24 “He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

So? Would you like to make any more out of context quotes?

Jesus is saying HIS words come from the Father, he is NOT saying that the Bible is all direct word of God.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Adam and Eve weren't homosexuals, so it was not part of God's original design.

Adam and Eve were not real people. Quit mistaking alegorical myth for historical fact

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear EnemyPartyII

God thinks humans are important. We know this because he sent his only begoten son to die for us.

Where does that idea come then if not from the Bible?
I asked you how know God thinks these things if not from then Bible and you have just answered me with something from the Bible.

Jesus is saying HIS words come from the Father, he is NOT saying that the Bible is all direct word of God.

Neither am I saying the Bible is all direct word from God nor have I suggested Jesus said that. But you cant say the Bible isn’t the word of God, it does contain the words of God and it contains words that are inspired by God.

Adam and Eve were not real people. Quit mistaking alegorical myth for historical fact

How do you know? You weren’t there at creation. Can I therefore point out that Adam and Eve were man and woman and probably not mythological homosexuals, but probably mythological heterosexuals.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Dear EnemyPartyII

Where does that idea come then if not from the Bible?
I asked you how know God thinks these things if not from then Bible and you have just answered me with something from the Bible.

Neither am I saying the Bible is all direct word from God nor have I suggested Jesus said that. But you cant say the Bible isn’t the word of God, it does contain the words of God and it contains words that are inspired by God.

How do you know? You weren’t there at creation. Can I therefore point out that Adam and Eve were man and woman and probably not mythological homosexuals, but probably mythological heterosexuals.

quit pretending I ever said ALL the Bible is wrong... I have only ever said it isn't perfect, nor is it direct word of God... show me where I ever implied that it doesn't have SOME factual information in it?

Neither am I saying the Bible is all direct word from God nor have I suggested Jesus said that. But you cant say the Bible isn’t the word of God, it does contain the words of God and it contains words that are inspired by God.

Hold on... so now you agree that parts of the Bible ARE merely the work of its human authors?

How do you know? You weren’t there at creation.

No, I wasn't. Fortunately scientific evidence does not require an eyewitness to confirm the accuracy of a theory.

Can I therefore point out that Adam and Eve were man and woman and probably not mythological homosexuals, but probably mythological heterosexuals.

And their children were all mythologically incestuous, and their grandchildren where all mythologically inbred... whats your point?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear EnemyPartyII

quit pretending I ever said ALL the Bible is wrong... I have only ever said it isn't perfect, nor is it direct word of God... show me where I ever implied that it doesn't have SOME factual information in it?

No I never said you said that either. I merely pointed out you said the Bible is not God’s word, and I have shown you some of the Bible is. You also asked did Jesus come for people or the law, and obviously he came for both as fulfilment of the law was part of His plan for the salvation. Mine is a holistic approach your is a legalistic ‘this or that’ approach

Hold on... so now you agree that parts of the Bible ARE merely the work of its human authors?

All of the Bible is the work of human authors.

No, I wasn't. Fortunately scientific evidence does not require an eyewitness to confirm the accuracy of a theory.

But there isn’t any scientific evidence.

And their children were all mythologically incestuous, and their grandchildren where all mythologically inbred... whats your point?

My point is the point I made addressing what you said. Adam and Eve were man and woman, whether mythological or real.If you don’t believe it you don’t believe the recorded words of Jesus that in the beginning God made them male and female.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

But there isn’t any scientific evidence.

wanna bet?

My point is the point I made addressing what you said. Adam and Eve were man and woman, whether mythological or real.If you don’t believe it you don’t believe the recorded words of Jesus that in the beginning God made them male and female.

so... was Jesus making this comment to condemn homosexuality... or was he making this comment to confirm that both men and women are children of God?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I might say somewhere on my site that I don't debate people who don't listen????

Since I have no idea what site you're talking about, I'll chalk this up to lack of advertising.

Spermie. Egg. If they don't get it right the first time, no reproduction. The egg has to have the outer shell/membrane. The sperm has to have the helmet and a tail- otherwise it doesn't stand a chance.

A crude description, but accurate enough. What is your point?

Yes, exactly, and I'd like to see anyone try to prove that homosexuality came about without direct intervention- or with it.

You are asking for someone to prove a negative. Since there is no reason to believe that homosexuality came about because of direct intervention, and there is every reason to believe that it did, well, the logic speaks for itself.

You can't prove it either way, so you cannot know whether or not it is natural. Like I said, statistics don't make something natural.

Proof is for mathematics and alcohol. Biology deals in evidenced probability, and the evidence points to natural homosexuality.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Adam and Eve were good, until they sinned and they were cast out of the garden.

Adam and Eve were ignorant of morality until they ate of that infamous fruit. To call them 'good' is to assume they followed a moral code.

From sin came homosexuality.

Why do you say this?

Adam and Eve weren't homosexuals, so it was not part of God's original design.

Adam and Eve weren't Asian either.
Adam and Eve's heterosexuality is not a matter of design, but one of necessity: the only way the human race can spawn from two people is if they were capable of producing fertile offspring. It is required that the original two humans were male and female.

Homosexuality perverts this idea

What idea?

by saying it isn't sin and part of God's design when it wasn't. That is twisting the truth to advocate a lie. Satan is the father of lies.

You have yet to demonstrate how homosexuality isn't part of design.

To pervert means to:

per·vert play_w("P0214600") (p

r-vûrt

)tr.v. per·vert·ed, per·vert·ing, per·verts 1. To cause to turn away from what is right, proper, or good; corrupt.
2. To bring to a bad or worse condition; debase.
3. To put to a wrong or improper use; misuse. See Synonyms at corrupt.
4. To interpret incorrectly; misconstrue or distort: an analysis that perverts the meaning of the poem.

n. (pûr

vûrt

) One who practices sexual perversion.

*sigh* I know what 'perverted' means. For something to be perverted, there must be a benchmark upon which it is so deemed: one cannot call something perverted without implicitly calling something else non-perverted.

So what is this set of sexual non-perversions, and why is homosexuality not contained within it?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

the people who keep saying Adam and Eve is the perfect example of God's intended family don't seem to like it when you point out that all their children were incestuous and all their grandchildren inbred... if Adam and Eve are the perfect ideal, does that mean we should be more friendly to our sisters?

 

[RMDY]

The garden story explains how Satan became the prince of this world through separating us from God. It also explains how sin entered the world. If there is no Adam and Eve, that is like telling me there is no resurrection. I don't believe we came from animals, but I am also open to the fact that the earth wasn't created in "7 days". I am very open to the fact the one day in God's time can equal 1000 years or 1,000,000,000 years, or are references to different periods in time.


Adam and Eve and Satan use to be all good, until they either sinned or sin was found in them. Remember, God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:25)

Satan use to be good.
Adam and Eve use to be good.

 

[RMDY]

If you don't believe in that story, then what do you believe concerning the origin of Satan and sin?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

If you don't believe in that story, then what do you believe concerning the origin of Satan and sin?

God's call to better ourselves, to overcome our inherent sinful nature, is nothing more than that.

By putting away temptation, by choosing the higher path, we better ourselves, and become closer to God, and further from animals...

Its about an active attempt to be more like God, to divorce ourselves from our animal forebears...

I believe such an interpretation makes much more sense than the apple story with all its glaring errors...

I believe the eden story is an alegorical description of humns gaining inteligence, our ancestors used to live in the wild, and not worry about tilling and working, they just took each day at a time... but then, as we gain inteligence, we also gain the desire to have civilisation, and all the costs that go with it... *sigh* its complicated, and I don't want to have to type out the whole thing, but it makes sense...

you know how sometimes people say "wouldn't it be good to be an animal, without a care in the world"?

well, I believe the Eden story is about that, its about gaining inteligence, and how we are no longer animals without a care in the world, we have to work, and plan, and learn... but the pay off is that we are able to create and learn and improve our conditions

 

[EnemyPartyII]

so we have our animal history to overcome... thats where our base temptation and desire comes from, and what God calls us to overcome... I see no reason to invoke a mythical "first sin" that gets passed on to all decendants

 

[RMDY]

You have yet to demonstrate how homosexuality isn't part of design.

I explained homosexuality came as a result of sin entering into our lives, as a result of Adam's actions. Because we became sinful, we also became immoral. You keep asking this question, and I keep showing you a picture, but you don't believe in it, do you? Surely you do not believe because you are a pagan and follow a different set beliefs?

Adam and Eve were ignorant of morality until they ate of that infamous fruit. To call them 'good' is to assume they followed a moral code.

God saw his creation was good. God calls them good, therefore, they were good.

 

[RMDY]

Ok friends. EnemyParty and Wiccan_child, because I lack understanding of your views on a certain issue, I want to gain some understanding:

Explain to me what sin is how it entered the world, as if I didn't know the bible
Explain to me about Satan as if I didn't know the bible.

I'm not going to comment on your replies for this post, so you won't have to worry about me disagreeing with what you say, and you can send it to me in PM if you would like.

Thank you,

God bless,

Rob =)

 

[Ohioprof]

The garden story explains how Satan became the prince of this world through separating us from God. It also explains how sin entered the world. If there is no Adam and Eve, that is like telling me there is no resurrection. I don't believe we came from animals, but I am also open to the fact that the earth wasn't created in "7 days". I am very open to the fact the one day in God's time can equal 1000 years or 1,000,000,000 years, or are references to different periods in time.


Adam and Eve and Satan use to be all good, until they either sinned or sin was found in them. Remember, God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:25)

Satan use to be good.
Adam and Eve use to be good.

Adam and Eve did not exist as real humans. And the resurrection did not literally happen. There was never a virgin birth either. These are all stories. They may illustrate moral points, but they are certainly not literally true.