Evidence of miracles.

[Mountainmike]

How many proteins do they have? What kind of genome? How complex?

Further evidence that such simple protocell structures account for the earliest lifeforms thus far discovered from fossilized remains:
Oldest fossils of methane-cycling microbes expand frontiers of habitability on early Earth


Hydrothermal vent sub-surface habitat origins:

Then there's Western Australia's stromatolite evidence:


View attachment 312974

Similar morphology with modelled protocells:

 

[Mountainmike]

Droll
Thats what i should be telling you but i thought you knew.

Are you after a serious discussion?
Ill informed flippancy does not help.

Forensic science disagrees with you! not me.
There is plenty of evidence to investigate.

I quoted Dr Robert Lawrence forensic pathologist who studied the ( so called) miracle of Buenos airies , and the bleeding statue of Cochabamba. He concluded
“convincing evidence of creation...the formation of human heart tissue from an inanimate wafer”

Many other forensic pathologists concluded the same.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't know what you are talking about.

Then it's not important. My point was that the Church, generally speaking, has used prophecy as "proof" of Biblical inspiration, which in turn is "proof" of infallibility.

Of course, one wrong prophecy and the entire claim goes bust.

 

[SkyWriting]

Then it's not important. My point was that the Church, generally speaking, has used prophecy as "proof" of Biblical inspiration, which in turn is "proof" of infallibility.

Of course, one wrong prophecy and the entire claim goes bust.

Or the listener is wrong.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Or the listener is wrong.

That's always a possibility. In which case, it's up to the listener to request clarification.

If the listener repeatedly gets the same message, then something's wrong with the speaker.

 

[Mountainmike]

Then it's not important. My point was that the Church, generally speaking, has used prophecy as "proof" of Biblical inspiration, which in turn is "proof" of infallibility.

Of course, one wrong prophecy and the entire claim goes bust.

Since prophecy is impossible , ONE correct prophecy way beyond random chance is enough:

Historical events are hard to validate. Try more recent prophecies.

Take that at Fatima.
Whatever the exact meteorological nature of what took place on midday October 13th , 1917 at Fatima , it was
1/ prophesied 6 months before
2/ it happened on exact time and date
3/ it was so extraordinary, it has never repeated before or since
4/ it was witnessed by tens thousands including many trained witnesses , police , science professors, atheists,books full of hundreds of eye witness testimonies
4/ those who came to debunk it such as sceptic media and authorities confirmed it, not debunked it , like the editor of “ o seculo”
5/ it was witnessed from up to 20 miles away by many, sone not expecting it, so not mass hallucination
6/ there were physical aspects eg the ground drying in an instant after a night of torrential rain,
7/ it was prophesied so that all would “ see and believe”

- the same lady prophesied the event that heralded World War II

 

[SkyWriting]

That's always a possibility. In which case, it's up to the listener to request clarification.

If the listener repeatedly gets the same message, then something's wrong with the speaker.

I don't pay any attention to prophesy. So I guess I can't relate to the complaint.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't pay any attention to prophesy. So I guess I can't relate to the complaint.

I like this one ...

1 Kings 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

This is one of the most remarkable and most singular prophecies in the Old Testament. It here most circumstantially foretells a fact which took place three hundred and forty years after the prediction; a fact which was attested by the two nations. The Jews, in whose behalf this prophecy was delivered, would guard it most sacredly; and it was the interest of the Israelites, against whom it was levelled, to impugn its authenticity and expose its falsehood, had this been possible. This prediction not only showed the knowledge of God, but his power. He gave, as it were, this warning to idolatry, that it might be on its guard, and defend itself against this Josiah whenever a person of that name should be found sitting on the throne of David; and no doubt it was on the alert, and took all prudent measures for its own defence; but all in vain, for Josiah, in the eighteenth year of his reign, literally accomplished this prophecy, as we may read, 2Ki 23:15-20.

 

[SkyWriting]

I like this one ...

1 Kings 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary:

This is one of the most remarkable and most singular prophecies in the Old Testament. It here most circumstantially foretells a fact which took place three hundred and forty years after the prediction; a fact which was attested by the two nations. The Jews, in whose behalf this prophecy was delivered, would guard it most sacredly; and it was the interest of the Israelites, against whom it was levelled, to impugn its authenticity and expose its falsehood, had this been possible. This prediction not only showed the knowledge of God, but his power. He gave, as it were, this warning to idolatry, that it might be on its guard, and defend itself against this Josiah whenever a person of that name should be found sitting on the throne of David; and no doubt it was on the alert, and took all prudent measures for its own defence; but all in vain, for Josiah, in the eighteenth year of his reign, literally accomplished this prophecy, as we may read, 2Ki 23:15-20.

What's the burning of bones about?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Since prophecy is impossible , ONE correct prophecy way beyond random chance is enough:

Utter nonsense. There is a thing called "luck."

Historical events are hard to validate. Try more recent prophecies.

Take that at Fatima.
Whatever the exact meteorological nature of what took place on midday October 13th , 1917 at Fatima , it was
1/ prophesied 6 months before
2/ it happened on exact time and date
3/ it was so extraordinary, it has never repeated before or since
4/ it was witnessed by tens thousands including many trained witnesses , police , science professors, atheists,books full of hundreds of eye witness testimonies
4/ those who came to debunk it such as sceptic media and authorities confirmed it, not debunked it , like the editor of “ o seculo”
5/ it was witnessed from up to 20 miles away by many, sone not expecting it, so not mass hallucination
6/ there were physical aspects eg the ground drying in an instant after a night of torrential rain,
7/ it was prophesied so that all would “ see and believe”

- the same lady prophesied the event that heralded World War II

Actually, she "prophecised":

You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.

A "prophecy" which was not made public until August of 1941... long after it could have been of any use.

 

[Mountainmike]

Address the original prophecy of Oct 13 1917 I documented.

And that is way past “ luck” for an event not recorded before or since so has no baseline probability.

As for the WWII prophecy, the records were not made public but way precede that date.

Utter nonsense. There is a thing called "luck."



Actually, she "prophecised":

You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.

A "prophecy" which was not made public until August of 1941... long after it could have been of any use.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't pay any attention to prophesy. So I guess I can't relate to the complaint.

I don't believe in "prophecy" in the sense of telling the future -- that's fortunetelling.

To me, a "prophet" is someone who is able to look outside of their own circumstances to discover timeless truths -- I accept that this is an unconventional definition, and hardly universally accepted, but it works for me. To a theist, such a power can only come from God, But I see it more as an insight into human nature... the kind one can see in great writers, scientists, leaders, orators, etc... to be so in touch with their times that they (paradoxically) are able to transcend their times.

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't believe in "prophecy" in the sense of telling the future -- that's fortunetelling.

And most churches only cover the prophecy for the birth of Jesus, and not much else.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Address the original prophecy of Oct 13 1917 I documented.

Can you repost the link?

And that is way past “ luck” for an event not recorded before or since so has no baseline probability.

So we have no way of measuring its effectivness as a "prophecy."

As for the WWII prophecy, the records were not made public but way precede that date.

...Allegedly.

 

[AV1611VET]

What's the burning of bones about?

So paleoarchaeologists can't identify him.

 

[Astrid]

.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And most churches only cover the prophecy for the birth of Jesus, and not much else.

While glossing over some pretty epic shoehorning and retconning in the process... but this is getting a bit off topic.

 

[SkyWriting]

So paleoarchaeologists can't identify him.

Makes sense.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yiou' ve done fine demonstrating what you dont know, as well
as the entirely idiologically driven choice of wide open credulity
on the sketchiest of "evidence" to the complete opposite when it
doesnt suit.
" heart tissue in a cracker"

Honestly, people in America!

According to his profile, he's from the UK.

But I can understand the "American" assumption.

 

[Astrid]

Are you after a serious discussion?
Ill informed flippancy does not help.

Forensic science disagrees with you! not me.
There is plenty of evidence to investigate.

I quoted Dr Robert Lawrence forensic pathologist who studied the ( so called) miracle of Buenos airies , and the bleeding statue of Cochabamba. He concluded
“convincing evidence of creation...the formation of human heart tissue from an inanimate wafer”

Many other forensic pathologists concluded the same.

"Human heart tissue in a cracker."
I like serious talk, so I will leave you to those
who may be amused.