Evidence of a worldwide flood

[essentialsaltes]

You do.

Once again. Show us.


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At the end of the day evidence is a hollow thing. You are going to see the evidence to support your worldview and I am going to see the evidence to support my world view. And we will discredit the others evidence.

Just to emphasize the difference between the science-based inquiry and authority-based non-inquiry...

The science-based position is not afraid to examine the evidence of 'the other side'. But often it turns out to be all talk, no substance. The point is to examine all the relevant evidence (especially the sore points that don't appear to fit the theory -- that's inevitably how we learn something) and see whether a given hypothesis should be modified or rejected.

 

[Platte]

Once again. Show us.
Just to emphasize the difference between the science-based inquiry and authority-based non-inquiry...

The science-based position is not afraid to examine the evidence of 'the other side'. But often it turns out to be all talk, no substance. The point is to examine all the relevant evidence (especially the sore points that don't appear to fit the theory -- that's inevitably how we learn something) and see whether a given hypothesis should be modified or rejected.

A few years ago the world according to science was 3 billion years old. Now it is over 4. Recently, carbon dating had an overhaul to improve its accuracy. Science does not have a good track record of dating things.

History on the other hand has been remarkably consistent and accurate with few exceptions. George Washington’s death is 1799 according to History. Same year it was when I was in school 40 years ago. I trust Historical record greatly and scientific dating very little

 

[Bungle_Bear]

A few years ago the world according to science was 3 billion years old. Now it is over 4. Recently, carbon dating had an overhaul to improve its accuracy. Science does not have a good track record of dating things.

History on the other hand has been remarkably consistent and accurate with few exceptions. George Washington’s death is 1799 according to History. Same year it was when I was in school 40 years ago. I trust Historical record greatly and scientific dating very little

History is often inaccurate. History sometimes makes mistakes. But it's not all bad - contrary to your repeated assertion, history refutes YEC.

 

[Platte]

History is often inaccurate. History sometimes makes mistakes. But it's not all bad - contrary to your repeated assertion, history refutes YEC.

The timeline and dates of history rarely ever change or are deemed inaccurate. Historical facts of course are disputed but timelines/dates are rarely. History supports YEC. First civilization, first language and written words, recorded history, etc.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

History supports YEC. First civilization, first language and written words, recorded history, etc.

Please demonstrate this to be true.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

History supports YEC

It very much doesn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

It very much doesn't.

I define Embedded Age Creation as "maturity without history."

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I define Embedded Age Creation as "maturity without history."

I know you do.

And I call it a lie.

 

[sjastro]

What ... happened ... to ... that ... ball ... of ... mud ... in ... a ... week's ... time ... ?

Why should I engage in your ridiculous fairytales when you fail your own standards given the Bible does not make any references to the Earth being a ball of mud which God cleaned up afterwards.
Once again you ignore my question of how a cave painting dated 45,500 years old does not equate to evidence being wiped out by a global flood in 2348 BC.
Here we go again on your double standards.
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x

Post 153 please.

Dimes can't be dated either, can they?

This is one of your typical nonsensical meaningless posts which does not even vaguely address the science of dating objects such as rocks, water and cave paintings.

Keep posting, sjastro.

All you're doing is showing us through your word choices that you don't have a clue as to what we're saying.

Evidently a further simplification is required to cater for your limited level of comprehension.
The thread is about evidence supporting a global flood which the poster claims exists in the sedimentary layers and the concentration of fossils in these layers.
Do I need to remind you God cleaning up this “ball of mud” is your pathetic reasoning in trying to explain the lack of evidence for a global flood?
It is telling you are not prepared to defend your own principles against another YECist who has a diametrically opposed POV regarding evidence.

Let's see a light bulb come on.

This is your answer to my question of how a cave painting dated as 45,500 years old does not equate to evidence being wiped out by a flood in 2348 BC??
This is yet another example of a nonsensical meaningless response.

 

[sjastro]

History supports YEC

Does it really?
Apart from being deliberately vague because you have nothing to support this claim, your fellow YECist has a completely different view of history.
He has unintentionally shot your thread down in flames with the art of trying to turn fairytales into historical events such as God’s removing all traces of evidence of the Biblical flood.
What has been demonstrated in this thread is how history can be distorted or worse made up to support a POV.

History that is not backed by evidence through the sciences such as archaeology or paleontology is not history but story telling.
Making ignorant statements that rocks, water and cave paintings cannot be dated even if this was true does not validate YEC and is an example of a false dichotomy fallacy.
The facts are whether you like it or not the evidence totally refutes YEC while the lack of evidence such as the global distribution of sedimentation refutes the Biblical flood.

 

[Shemjaza]

A few years ago the world according to science was 3 billion years old. Now it is over 4. Recently, carbon dating had an overhaul to improve its accuracy. Science does not have a good track record of dating things.

History on the other hand has been remarkably consistent and accurate with few exceptions. George Washington’s death is 1799 according to History. Same year it was when I was in school 40 years ago. I trust Historical record greatly and scientific dating very little

That's your claim... I think you are mistaken and looking for justification.

The thing about scientific conclusions is that they are based on reasoning that can be explained and demonstrated, not just made up because you like the conclusions.

All you comments about fossil records and extinct species were both wrong and illogical, but you thought it was a good explanation so you presented them. When issues were brought up you just moved on.


As to your current ideas, YEC is blatantly not supported by history. There is evidence for vast cities with people of diverse genetic background all over the world for thousands of years before it would be possible if literally none of it existed in 2000 BC.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why should I engage in your ridiculous fairytales when you fail your own standards given the Bible does not make any references to the Earth being a ball of mud which God cleaned up afterwards.

Sensus plenior is a drag, isn't it, sjastro?

 

[AV1611VET]

As to your current ideas, YEC is blatantly not supported by history. There is evidence for vast cities with people of diverse genetic background all over the world for thousands of years before it would be possible if literally none of it existed in 2000 BC.

I'll bet these cities existed even before the time YECs say the earth was created too, didn't they?

 

[Shemjaza]

I'll bet these cities existed even before the time YECs say the earth was created too, didn't they?

Some yes.

Not many particularly big ones, but there is evidence for structures and settlements that existed far away from the mountains of the middle east before 4000 BC

 

[Platte]

Please demonstrate this to be true.

When does written history begin? Historically when did language and writing begin. Historically what is the first recorded civilization.
The answer to those questions demonstrate History supporting YEC

 

[Platte]

That's your claim... I think you are mistaken and looking for justification.

The thing about scientific conclusions is that they are based on reasoning that can be explained and demonstrated, not just made up because you like the conclusions.

All you comments about fossil records and extinct species were both wrong and illogical, but you thought it was a good explanation so you presented them. When issues were brought up you just moved on.


As to your current ideas, YEC is blatantly not supported by history. There is evidence for vast cities with people of diverse genetic background all over the world for thousands of years before it would be possible if literally none of it existed in 2000 BC.

History is the study and the documentation of the past. Events before the invention of writing systems are considered prehistory.

 

[sjastro]

Some yes.

Not many particularly big ones, but there is evidence for structures and settlements that existed far away from the mountains of the middle east before 4000 BC

An example is Merimde Beni Salama a Neolithic settlement in Lower Egypt centuries before pharaonic Egypt came into existence.
Archaeological evidence reveals the settlement was occupied from around 5000 BC - 4200 BC with a population of up to 16,000.

The elephant in the room which YECs cannot explain is the earliest evidence of a monotheistic religion Atenism occurred in the reign of the Pharoah Akhenaten around 1350 BC.
It is a trifle strange the descendants of Adam and Eve assuming they were created in 4004 BC would be worshiping many gods for nearly 3000 years before a monotheistic religion was even contemplated.
Some scholars have gone as far to suggest Judaism evolved from Atenism.

 

[AV1611VET]

History is the study and the documentation of the past. Events before the invention of writing systems are considered prehistory.

Yup.

Some consider the invention [sic] of writing to be the dividing line between prehistorical and historical.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

When does written history begin? Historically when did language and writing begin. Historically what is the first recorded civilization.
The answer to those questions demonstrate History supporting YEC

I notice you didn't demonstrate any of the claims you made, you just threw out random questions without demonstrating how the answers would support YEC. What does YEC say about any of those questions?

History refutes YEC in every claim it makes.

 

[Platte]

I notice you didn't demonstrate any of the claims you made, you just threw out random questions without demonstrating how the answers would support YEC. What does YEC say about any of those questions?

History refutes YEC in every claim it makes.

recorded historybegins with the accounts of the ancient worldaround the 4th millennium BCE, and coincides with the invention of writing.


Sumerian language, language isolate and the oldest written language in existence. First attested about 3100 BCEin southern Mesopotamia

Scholars now recognize that writing may have independently developed in at least four ancient civilizations: Mesopotamia (between 3400 and 3100 BCE), Egypt (around 3250 BCE), China (1200 BCE), and lowland areas of Southern Mexico and Guatemala (by 500 BCE).

The span of recorded history is roughly 5,000 years, beginning with the Sumerian cuneiform script.


Yeah History really refutes YEC in every claim it makes. You are in denial