Every problem has a solution.

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I often wonder if elementary and high school students who really aren't up to grade level are passed anyway as there are just too many of them to hold over. That would cause a serious gridlock in the system.

I see this with my friend kid. He's about second or third grade level. But they still pass him. He's in 4th grade. And then there my nephew. He's really smart, He's in the gifted program. But he's to advanced for that. They don't do enough for either.

 

[dgiharris]

You actually have to 'follow the money' to determine economic impact. I see it as a good thing, all things considered.

good for the rich, the execs, and the top 1% absolutely...

not good for the middle class...

the data and trends do not support a picture that is flattering to the middle class.

Here is another graph (I love data, data doesn't lie)

again, another graph showing how things aren't working out so well for the middle class. I will admit, I do not know the degree of correlation between all the various graphs I submit...

However there is a definite "something" going on. Economic interrelations are very complicated... but what I will postulate is that the "attitude" that justifies wealth accumulation by the top 1% or so of society is an attitude that results in a systemic negative impact to the middle class...

basically, if my goal is to make life great for dogs, odds are it won't work out so well for cats.... If the focus is on making sure the rich get richer then I seriously doubt those policies are optimal for the middle class...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

good for the rich, the execs, and the top 1% absolutely...

not good for the middle class...

the data and trends do not support a picture that is flattering to the middle class.

Here is another graph (I love data, data doesn't lie)

again, another graph showing how things aren't working out so well for the middle class. I will admit, I do not know the degree of correlation between all the various graphs I submit...

However there is a definite "something" going on. Economic interrelations are very complicated... but what I will postulate is that the "attitude" that justifies wealth accumulation by the top 1% or so of society is an attitude that results in a systemic negative impact to the middle class...

basically, if my goal is to make life great for dogs, odds are it won't work out so well for cats.... If the focus is on making sure the rich get richer then I seriously doubt those policies are optimal for the middle class...

Data, graphs, and statistics are interesting but hardly indicative of individual situations, and certainly not indicative of individual opportunities.

 

[dgiharris]

Data, graphs, and statistics are interesting but hardly indicative of individual situations, and certainly not indicative of individual opportunities.

we can always cherry pick an "individual opportunity" that aligns with our personal philosophies, arguments, and sentiments...

however I'd rather look holistically at this country, its problems and opportunities.

There is a very comforting belief and philosophy that more or less says, good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. If you are in a good situation it is because you deserve it and earned it. If you are in a bad situation it is because it is your fault and you didn't work hard enough...

the above sentiment allows us to absolve ourselves of any and all responsibilities to help our fellow man and/or acknowledge things that are unfair in this country. It is a form of victim blaming.

there are other things the above sentiment allows. It allows the powers that be to control us, it allows us to overlook injustice, it allows us to perpetuate oppression, etc etc.

Yes, there are situations in which people can pick themselves up by their own bootstraps and be successful. Absolutely. However, there are also situations in which people are buried underneath too much adversity and can't overcome it. Yes, there are times when all those nice catchy pithy sayings that are sewn onto pillows work... but then, sadly there are times when they don't.

that is life, that is reality. The universe is random. sometimes bad things happen to good people. Sometimes, your problem does not have a solution.

that is all I'm saying... basically, I just want us to acknowledge reality... warts and all...

 

[HannahT]

we can always cherry pick an "individual opportunity" that aligns with our personal philosophies, arguments, and sentiments...

however I'd rather look holistically at this country, its problems and opportunities.

No doubt we do at times. You are also cherry picking your phrases in this case too.

There is a tendency today to only look to the negative, and not acknowledge the many good things that happen. Man helping fellow man, etc. Mentors that help those reach their goals. Those are just a small examples.

Everytime it seems today when something decent happens? Someone can always find something negative to say about it. It's sad to me that people hunt for the negative all the time, and can never see the positive in almost anything.

We also have a hard time acknowledging that reality.

however I'd rather look holistically at this country, its problems and opportunities.

I didn't see any opportunities even hinted at in your paragraphs. I didn't hear solutions. All I did hear is how people seem to be in denial, and blame the poor or downtrodden. How everyone has pithy phrases they use NOT to do something, see something, etc.

Yet, you have supplied graphs and griped. Then offered nothing more.

Remember there is also a phrase - if all you look for is negative? That's all you are ever going to see.

Do we look to see WHY costs of education are sky rocking to insane levels? I would bet more people know they skyrocket compared to those have a hint at some reason why - true reason, rational ones they can back up.

What solution do you offer to stop the evil corporations from giving out their bonuses?

I think you are very wrong about people being in denial. Everyone deals with problem differently, and YES you were will always have those that refuse to face the evils their fellow man deal with. Yet, you also have negative nellies that always see bad, and can't handle good too. This is called the human race, and it hasn't changed much in that aspect.

I guess I will twist the label 'victim blaming', and turn it into 'society blaming' - and ask where is your holistic opportunity for change is?!

 

[dgiharris]

I didn't see any opportunities even hinted at in your paragraphs. I didn't hear solutions.

The context behind my rant was specifically countering the notion that every problem has a solution which is the impetus behind this thread....

I guess I will twist the label 'victim blaming', and turn it into 'society blaming' - and ask where is your holistic opportunity for change is?!

A very important part of change and opportunity and bettering this country is understanding the root cause of our problems. Without that understanding, lasting change will be illusive.

Truthfully, I am very sad and cynical. I see extreme injustice in this country, come on the boards (not just here but other forums as well) and I see people defending the injustice. Or, worse, I see people of high intellect warping, twisting, and spinning the narrative in such a way as to defend the injustice simply because that injustice serves their interests...

But... coming back to the spirit of your post...

Where are my solutions?

Here is a solution that we as a country can implement and if we implemented this solution then we'd go a long ways towards fixing the problems in this country.

My solution? I wish we'd all be consistent in our logic, argument, and reasons. If we hate it when the GOP does XYZ then we must also hate it when our party does XYZ. If we slam the Liberals for doing QRS then we must also slam our party when they do QRS.

The other party doing the action we despise should never be justification for us allowing our party to do that same action.

In short, if we ended the practice of hypocrisy we'd fix at least 75% of what is wrong with our country. Yet again, part of what is required is an unbiased and honest assessment of the facts and data, Data doesn't lie and we need to be data driven.

unfortunately, we just aren't as a country. If the data opposes our viewpoints, we just employ logical fallacies that enable us to still support those viewpoints. And if we want to make this country a better place, we need to stop doing that...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

we can always cherry pick an "individual opportunity" that aligns with our personal philosophies, arguments, and sentiments...

however I'd rather look holistically at this country, its problems and opportunities.

There is a very comforting belief and philosophy that more or less says, good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. If you are in a good situation it is because you deserve it and earned it. If you are in a bad situation it is because it is your fault and you didn't work hard enough...

the above sentiment allows us to absolve ourselves of any and all responsibilities to help our fellow man and/or acknowledge things that are unfair in this country. It is a form of victim blaming.

there are other things the above sentiment allows. It allows the powers that be to control us, it allows us to overlook injustice, it allows us to perpetuate oppression, etc etc.

Yes, there are situations in which people can pick themselves up by their own bootstraps and be successful. Absolutely. However, there are also situations in which people are buried underneath too much adversity and can't overcome it. Yes, there are times when all those nice catchy pithy sayings that are sewn onto pillows work... but then, sadly there are times when they don't.

that is life, that is reality. The universe is random. sometimes bad things happen to good people. Sometimes, your problem does not have a solution.

that is all I'm saying... basically, I just want us to acknowledge reality... warts and all...

The problem with your approach is that you are separating the people that have problems from those who don't, and blaming those who don't for the problems of those that do. This is the exact opposite of 'victim blaming'. This is blaming successful people for the failures of those who aren't. This may be true in third world countries but certainly not here. A more honest approach is to judge each case on it's merits, then craft a 'holistic' solution to the problem if that is even possible.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Universal basic income would be like sharing all the food on earth......everyone would go to bed hungry.

That's not entirely true...

If we stopped using cows for food, and used the food we're giving to the cows to feed people, there'd be plenty. It takes 4.5 pounds of food to feed the cows per pound of beef we get from the cows in the long run. Not a very good trade off in terms of food utilization.

That's like saying "I made this water machine!...you just have to poor in 4 gallons of water in the top, and it'll spit out this 1 gallon jug of water out of the bottom!"

...but I digress.


As far as UBI is concerned, even far-right economists like Milton Friedman would disagree with you:
Why Milton Friedman Supported a Guaranteed Income (5 Reasons)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's not entirely true...

If we stopped using cows for food, and used the food we're giving to the cows to feed people, there'd be plenty. It takes 4.5 pounds of food to feed the cows per pound of beef we get from the cows in the long run. Not a very good trade off in terms of food utilization.

That's like saying "I made this water machine!...you just have to poor in 4 gallons of water in the top, and it'll spit out this 1 gallon jug of water out of the bottom!"

...but I digress.

Feeding cattle isn't the problem. Utilizing them in agriculture isn't being done properly. Do this and the problems go away and more food is produced at lower cost.

As far as UBI is concerned, even far-right economists like Milton Friedman would disagree with you:
Why Milton Friedman Supported a Guaranteed Income (5 Reasons)

These are bad ideas, as Friedman doesn't take into account human nature, which would make a train wreck these plans. You still have greed and sloth to contend with and his ideas actually allow more opportunity for these. We actually have a 'guaranteed income' program now with all the government services and charities available to the poor.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Context is everything...per the statement in the article in the OP:
American employers are trying to hire, but they can't find the right workers for the right price.


The "right price" part is key. Nobody wants to be ripped off. Basically, because a generation of people have wised up to corporate shenanigans and refuse to be exploited for their labor for peanuts while the guy in the corner office makes 100x what they do, they must all be "lazy and drug addicted...that's why they won't go for those jobs"

Now, onto the other part about the people trying to get the jobs but failing drug tests...
The part they're not saying is that the lion's share of those drug tests being failed are probably for benign drug usage like recreational pot. Which, if outdated and archaic pot laws are the only thing stopping people from getting jobs when they want to work (they can't be that lazy, they did apply for the job after all, that's how they ended up getting a drug test), and this administration is really about putting Americans back to work, how about they put their money where their mouth is and get rid of the bogus anti-pot laws?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

These are bad ideas, as Friedman doesn't take into account human nature, which would make a train wreck these plans. You still have greed and sloth to contend with and his ideas actually allow more opportunity for these. We actually have a 'guaranteed income' program now with all the government services and charities available to the poor.

Being that Nobel winning economists on both sides of the political fence are in agreement on this one...until you can produce some credentials to trump theirs, or find someone else who does, you're pretty much on the losing ground on this one. Your speculation about "what could happen" based on your own personal perception of "human nature" doesn't negate their expert opinions on this subject.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Being that Nobel winning economists on both sides of the political fence are in agreement on this one...until you can produce some credentials to trump theirs, or find someone else who does, you're pretty much on the losing ground on this one. Your speculation about "what could happen" based on your own personal perception of "human nature" doesn't negate their expert opinions on this subject.

Lot's of plans sound great......on paper.

 

[bhsmte]

Back in the 1970's corporate leaders were asked what level of education their workers needed for their companies to compete globally. Their answer, "Eighth grade English, sixth grade math".

That equates to a 14 year old who has paid attention in class.

Formal education and experience, are two different animals.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Lot's of plans sound great......on paper.

Lots of plans work out just fine in implementation as well
(for instance, Single-payer has worked very well in places that have implemented it)

...however, that doesn't stop most people from engaging in wild speculation about the horrors that may come to be if it were tried here.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Lots of plans work out just fine in implementation as well
(for instance, Single-payer has worked very well in places that have implemented it)

...however, that doesn't stop most people from engaging in wild speculation about the horrors that may come to be if it were tried here.

Both positions are speculation.......here.

 

[dgiharris]

The problem with your approach is that you are separating the people that have problems from those who don't, and blaming those who don't for the problems of those that do. This is the exact opposite of 'victim blaming'. This is blaming successful people for the failures of those who aren't. This may be true in third world countries but certainly not here. A more honest approach is to judge each case on it's merits, then craft a 'holistic' solution to the problem if that is even possible.

This isn't at all what I'm doing. Not even close.

What I am asking is that we simply just acknowledge the truth and the data independent of our personal philosophy.

In your case, you are hell bent on attributing success to hard work and failure to laziness. You believe that "anyone" can change their situation if they just work hard enough and pick themselves up by their bootstrap. Similarly, you believe that the ubber rich and wealthy are what truly drive the country and the economy and that whatever is good for them must be good for everyone...

All I am doing is simply pointing out cases and circumstances where the above is just not true. Similarly, I'm pointing out the failings in our society that are responsible for the above not being true.

Now, that is not to say that people don't or can't better their situations because sure there are many that do. Similarly there are plenty of rich people who do benefit the economy and help the middle class. It is not my intent to take away from those positives. However, you can't just cherry pick your positives then apply it to the whole country and use it to negate any opposing arguments to the contrary...

I look at the fall of the Roman Empire and other great civilizations... I look at the Great Depression and the near Economic Meltdown of 2008 ala the Housing Crisis and I ask myself... WHY?

Not only do I ask myself WHY but I ask myself why didn't anyone see it coming? What are the factors that enable blind delusion on a massive scale...

ultimately, I conclude that we as a whole just refuse to acknowledge the actual data and instead are making arguments based on political talking points rather than actual data. We are lying to ourselves on a massive scale and the sky is falling...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This isn't at all what I'm doing. Not even close.

What I am asking is that we simply just acknowledge the truth and the data independent of our personal philosophy.

In your case, you are hell bent on attributing success to hard work and failure to laziness. You believe that "anyone" can change their situation if they just work hard enough and pick themselves up by their bootstrap. Similarly, you believe that the ubber rich and wealthy are what truly drive the country and the economy and that whatever is good for them must be good for everyone...

All I am doing is simply pointing out cases and circumstances where the above is just not true. Similarly, I'm pointing out the failings in our society that are responsible for the above not being true.

Now, that is not to say that people don't or can't better their situations because sure there are many that do. Similarly there are plenty of rich people who do benefit the economy and help the middle class. It is not my intent to take away from those positives. However, you can't just cherry pick your positives then apply it to the whole country and use it to negate any opposing arguments to the contrary...

I look at the fall of the Roman Empire and other great civilizations... I look at the Great Depression and the near Economic Meltdown of 2008 ala the Housing Crisis and I ask myself... WHY?

Not only do I ask myself WHY but I ask myself why didn't anyone see it coming? What are the factors that enable blind delusion on a massive scale...

ultimately, I conclude that we as a whole just refuse to acknowledge the actual data and instead are making arguments based on political talking points rather than actual data. We are lying to ourselves on a massive scale and the sky is falling...

We are in general agreement, whether or not you can see it. People are greedy and stupid, that's why so many have money problems. People have a crowd mentality, from the rich down to the poor. No one wants to be left behind if something is "going down" in the investment world. Thankfully there are many people (like me) who plod along carefully accepting small but steady gains in a well thought out and well managed plan. We bring stability to the economy while the greedy and stupid try (albeit unwittingly) to destroy it.

 

[dgiharris]

We are in general agreement, whether or not you can see it. People are greedy and stupid, that's why so many have money problems. People have a crowd mentality, from the rich down to the poor. No one wants to be left behind if something is "going down" in the investment world. Thankfully there are many people (like me) who plod along carefully accepting small but steady gains in a well thought out and well managed plan. We bring stability to the economy while the greedy and stupid try (albeit unwittingly) to destroy it.

perhaps we are in general agreement. I will readily admit that people on both ends of the spectrum from rich to poor do their fair share to lie, cheat, and steal for themselves and it ends up hurting the economy and society as a whole...

FWIW, I'm in the middle of constructing a new thought paradigm in regards to society.

Initially, I was brought up and indoctrinated with the idea and belief in democracy and the equality of all men. However, what I am coming to terms with is that the vast majority of people are very susceptible to manipulation... whether it is through greed, ignorance, stupidity, hate, anger... whatever... the end result is that the majority of the populace cannot make the correct decision in regards to what is best for all or even in some cases what is best for themselves...

I say the above rant independent of politics or political party allegiance.

Ironically, what I am slowly converging to is the idea that society is best led by an "elite" group of people who demonstrate the ability to think beyond themselves and look at total utility and total "goodness" for society. Of course ,everyone would believe themselves capable of being part of this group when the reality is that probably less than 5% of the population has the ability to think beyond themselves and come to data based decisions vs emotional decisions.

In any event, I'm still thinking through the above... not that it matters much, it is ultimately just one random internet know-it-all's opinion