every one gets a chance?

[reformed ttL]

reading the forums here and seeing posters saying that God has to be fair and let everyone have chance at the gospel, just wondering what happens or happend the millions over the span of history up until present that have never heard the good news , including the old testement tribes non Isreal?

 

[janxharris]

reading the forums here and seeing posters saying that God has to be fair and let everyone have chance at the gospel, just wondering what happens or happend the millions over the span of history up until present that have never heard the good news , including the old testement tribes non Isreal?

Good question.

That God sent his son who gave his life for all must mean that everyone has an equal opportunity.

I guess the Holy Spirit is at work on anyone and everyone (John 16:8) whether one has heard Jesus' name or not.

 

[WordofHisPower]

reading the forums here and seeing posters saying that God has to be fair and let everyone have chance at the gospel, just wondering what happens or happend the millions over the span of history up until present that have never heard the good news , including the old testement tribes non Isreal?

According to scripture, God has sent Christ, His angels, the Holy Spirit, dreams, visions, and revelations to reach the unreachable.

According to modern reports He's still doing it. God wants none to perish. He gives everyone a fair chance to accept or reject Christ.

Christ preached the gospel to the dead in sheol.
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Saul and Ananias both had visits from Christ. Acts 9:3-6, Acts 9:10-15

Mary and Zachariah both had visits from an angel who gave them a message from God. Luke 1:30, Luke 1:13

Joseph and the Magi received dreams from the Lord to warn them of danger. Matthew 1:20, Matthew 2:12

1 Corinthians 15:8
and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Luke 2:26
It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah.

2 Corinthians 12:1
I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Galatians 1:12
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

 

[janxharris]

According to scripture, God has sent Christ, His angels, the Holy Spirit, dreams, visions, and revelations to reach the unreachable.

According to modern reports He's still doing it. God wants none to perish. He gives everyone a fair chance to accept or reject Christ.

Christ preached the gospel to the dead in sheol.
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Saul and Ananias both had visits from Christ. Acts 9:3-6, Acts 9:10-15

Mary and Zachariah both had visits from an angel who gave them a message from God. Luke 1:30, Luke 1:13

Joseph and the Magi received dreams from the Lord to warn them of danger. Matthew 1:20, Matthew 2:12

1 Corinthians 15:8
and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Luke 2:26
It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah.

2 Corinthians 12:1
I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Galatians 1:12
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Good answer.

The Peter scriptures you cite have always intrigued me...

 

[WordofHisPower]

Good answer.

The Peter scriptures you cite have always intrigued me...

God's good. He made sure Christ preached the gospel to those who hadn't had a chance to hear.

 

[drstevej]

God's good. He made sure Christ preached the gospel to those who hadn't had a chance to hear.

Does God owe the gospel to sinners?

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

If He can do this and He is good, why are not all saved?

 

[janxharris]

Does God owe the gospel to sinners?

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

If He can do this and He is good, why are not all saved?

God doesn't owe us, no.
Not all are saved because not all receive the free gift.

 

[drstevej]

God doesn't owe us, no.
Not all are saved because not all receive the free gift.

God's good. He made sure Christ preached the gospel to those who hadn't had a chance to hear.

Jan, I agree with you.

 

[Arcoe]

Does God owe the gospel to sinners?

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

If He can do this and He is good, why are not all saved?

Does He owe heaven to the elect?

 

[Skala]

Does He owe heaven to the elect?

No.

 

[drstevej]

Does He owe heaven to the elect?

Nope.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Does God owe the gospel to sinners?

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

If He can do this and He is good, why are not all saved?

God repeatedly said to choose life rather than death. (approximately 100 scriptures on choose, choice, chose)

Christ repeatedly said whosoever wills can have the promises of God. (approximately 250 scriptures on anyone who, everyone who, whosoever wills, if any man)

One scripture on the Lord directing the king's heart would have to be interpreted rightly. (approximately 10 scriptures on the Lord forcing an issue or forcing a man's heart)

How could this possibly fit with all the scriptures on choose life rather than death, and whosoever wills can receive the promises of the Lord?

The original hebrew for Proverbs 21:1 and a few translations (knox, wyckliffe, expanded) say the Lord can turn the king's heart wherever He chooses.

This makes more sense.

God can do anything He wants to do. 99% of the time He tells us to choose and gives us the choice, but there are a handful of times in scripture He forced an issue to protect/save Israel, and once to get Jonah to preach repentance to Nineveh so they could choose to repent.

God will ransom the life of the wicked to save the life of the righteous. Proverbs 21:18
The wicked become a ransom for the righteous, and the unfaithful for the upright.

One thing God's never done in scripture is force anyone to choose Him.

 

[Eddie L]

One thing God's never done in scripture is force anyone to choose Him.

"Believe in me or burn in Hell" is the very definition of force. If a man puts a gun to my head and says "give me your money or die", he has forced me to give him my money. The reality is that the synergist position has God forcing a decision, not ours. By changing the heart by grace to willingly choose Him, God has avoided forcing anybody to do anything.

 

[drstevej]

The original hebrew for Proverbs 21:1

פַּלְגֵי־ מַ֣יִם לֶב־ מֶ֭לֶךְ בְּיַד־ יְהוָ֑ה עַֽל־ כָּל־ אֲשֶׁ֖ר יַחְפֹּ֣ץ יַטֶּֽנּוּ׃ כָּֽל־ דֶּרֶךְ־

Care to walk us through this WordofHisPower ???

 

[WordofHisPower]

פַּלְגֵי־ מַ֣יִם לֶב־ מֶ֭לֶךְ בְּיַד־ יְהוָ֑ה עַֽל־ כָּל־ אֲשֶׁ֖ר יַחְפֹּ֣ץ יַטֶּֽנּוּ׃ כָּֽל־ דֶּרֶךְ־

Care to walk us through this WordofHisPower ???

Yes. Sounds good. Let's do it.

 

[bottomofsandal]

reading the forums here and seeing posters saying that God has to be fair and let everyone have chance at the gospel, just wondering what happens or happend the millions over the span of history up until present that have never heard the good news , including the old testement tribes non Isreal?

It is a peculiar assertion if it is mulled over in your mind.

Let's just say that all men have an opportunity at salvation. Now what ? Is this really the problem ? Isn't the real concern how to save men, not the mere getting the message out to 100% ? God could have painted the message in the sky or dropped pamphlets out of an airplane. Funny how people like to blame God's lack of vision and His half-ass effort in getting the gospel to all men, but these same men don't lift a finger to correct such dissatisfaction. If God wanted everyone to have it, then they would have it.

 

[WordofHisPower]

"Believe in me or burn in Hell" is the very definition of force. If a man puts a gun to my head and says "give me your money or die", he has forced me to give him my money. The reality is that the synergist position has God forcing a decision, not ours. By changing the heart by grace to willingly choose Him, God has avoided forcing anybody to do anything.

No, it's still a choice between life and death. And God doesn't present it as turn or burn. That's a human ideology.

Christ's words on the subject are:

John 3:15-18
15 everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

No choice would be "I refuse to give you a chance to accept Christ. You're going to hell"

or

"I'm going to irresistibly force you to accept Christ."

 

[reformed ttL]

i think because of how we see things in the west being democratic and all. we all are ready to yell" this is not fair or that is not fair" ect.so when i hear or read that every one has the same crack at the gospel. i thought i would see why some think that. i know the bible teaches that gentiles died with out ever having prophets sent to them. and even today in places there are people who die without ever hearing about the gospel . so for someone to tell anyone what is fair or not regarding salvation seems odd to me

 

[reformed ttL]

No, it's still a choice between life and death. And God doesn't present it as turn or burn. That's a human ideology.

Christ's words on the subject are:

John 3:15-18
15 everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

No choice would be "I refuse to give you a chance to accept Christ. You're going to hell"

or

"I'm going to irresistibly force you to accept Christ."

or how about i will remove that heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh and you will love me because you have a new nature

 

[bling]

reading the forums here and seeing posters saying that God has to be fair and let everyone have chance at the gospel, just wondering what happens or happend the millions over the span of history up until present that have never heard the good news , including the old testement tribes non Isreal?

Let’s begin with your question concerning the Old Testament “tribes non Israel”?

The Bible has very little reference to “non-Israelites” relationship and teaching from God, you can go back to Abel, Noah, and the Nineveh at Jonah’s time. The story is just following Jonah, but we do get a little information about God’s concern for Gentiles in Nineveh and their reaction to God which suggests some understanding of God. In Jonah 4 God says: 11”And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left…” That sure sounds like a God very concerned (Love) especially for the “innocent” in Nineveh and wanting to help them. We just do not know what all the other prophets said to the people of Nineveh, before and after Jonah (since we are following the story of Jonah).


As for everyone else: The Bible also does not address directly the fate of the unborn, babies, small children, mentally handicapped, or those that never have the opportunity to accept or reject God’s help. These individuals will never have the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective, but still could enter heaven with a strong child for parent type of love, needing protection (this is from an understanding of God’s justice and Love).

There are also those that reach maturity and never here from Christians the wonderful news they would love to hear about Christ, which is the fault of Christians, but that also does not mean these willing and wanting are “lost”. All mature adults initially do stuff that hurts others and if they do not harden their hearts they will receive a burden on their conscience about their past bad behavior. They might try lots of things and religions but the only relief comes from humbly accepting their Creator’s forgiveness, which they can seek and God is at the elbow to help them.