Ever the Expert

[Jet Black]

I notice alot of creationists come here and make grandiose proclaations about the evidence, but I have to ask, are you really capable of making a judgement on this evidence? Do you really understand it sufficiently well to actually make a good contribution to the debate? or are you just toeing the party line? I dno't mean to come across as agressive in this post, but it does concern me that many of the creationist posters are not really adressing any of the evidence and are not actually learning anything about the opposing view, preferring to just flippantly dismiss anything that disagrees with their preconcieved worldview.

Perhaps others (even myself) are guilty of doing the same, however the difference I notice with the evolutionists, is that we tend to put forth a significant amount of evidence and analysis of the evidence, and this is something I think is lacking from the creationist side.

To the creationists, please recognise that you do not know it all, and you are not all experts on every facet of science, and please read the evidence that the evolutionists put forth. If you have a problem with it, please try to make clear in detail what your problems with the data are, and then perhaps you might either stand a better chance of convincing the opposition that you are right, or allow them to provide a better explanation and help you to learn. Flippant dismissals get nobody anywhere, and merely add to the frustration of those who often spend a good deal of time writing out lengthy responses to your problems.

I hope that we can all discuss the issues sensibly and maturely,

Jet.

 

[HuManiTeE]

the bible is the only evidence we need , it is GODS PERFECT WORD, however I will refrain from making this post too long and detailed since I seem to offend everyone and break the rules I guess. All the evidence is in GOds Word.
i dont trust sources from mans fallible thinking becuase tis non christian and naturaly because of our sin nature.
it is anti-God and atheist. If the evidence contradicts the bible, it is false. Simple as that, I wish people were more unbias and open minded to this possibility. We must approach the evidence with an open mind and the possiblity that God created the universe useing Creationism

 

[Hydra009]

If the evidence contradicts the bible, it is false.

We must approach the evidence with an open mind

I see just a tad contradiction here between your refusal to accept evidence which might threaten your interpretation of the Bible and your exhortation to look at evidence with an open mind.

 

[Jet Black]

the bible is the only evidence we need , it is GODS PERFECT WORD, however I will refrain from making this post too long and detailed since I seem to offend everyone and break the rules I guess. All the evidence is in GOds Word.
i dont trust sources from mans fallible thinking becuase tis non christian and naturaly because of our sin nature.
it is anti-God and atheist. If the evidence contradicts the bible, it is false. Simple as that, I wish people were more unbias and open minded to this possibility. We must approach the evidence with an open mind and the possiblity that God created the universe useing Creationism

your post is precisely the sort of thing I am talking about. I don't much care whether you agree with evolution or not, just that you actually understand what you are talking about in the first place. I am finding irrelevant rants like yours rather tiresome. If all you are going to do is ignore the forum rules, which state that you should have an open mind and be willing to learn (stonewallers need not apply) then please just leave, before we have to start hitting the report button. what do you even post here for if you are not really interested in anything other people have to say?

 

[Oncedeceived]

I notice alot of creationists come here and make grandiose proclaations about the evidence, but I have to ask, are you really capable of making a judgement on this evidence? Do you really understand it sufficiently well to actually make a good contribution to the debate? or are you just toeing the party line? I dno't mean to come across as agressive in this post, but it does concern me that many of the creationist posters are not really adressing any of the evidence and are not actually learning anything about the opposing view, preferring to just flippantly dismiss anything that disagrees with their preconcieved worldview.

Perhaps others (even myself) are guilty of doing the same, however the difference I notice with the evolutionists, is that we tend to put forth a significant amount of evidence and analysis of the evidence, and this is something I think is lacking from the creationist side.

To the creationists, please recognise that you do not know it all, and you are not all experts on every facet of science, and please read the evidence that the evolutionists put forth. If you have a problem with it, please try to make clear in detail what your problems with the data are, and then perhaps you might either stand a better chance of convincing the opposition that you are right, or allow them to provide a better explanation and help you to learn. Flippant dismissals get nobody anywhere, and merely add to the frustration of those who often spend a good deal of time writing out lengthy responses to your problems.

I hope that we can all discuss the issues sensibly and maturely,

Jet.

I'll try real hard to do better. I promise.

But why are there still apes around if evolution is true? Hehehehe.

 

[HRE]

But why are there still apes around if evolution is true? Hehehehe.

Thank you for raising my pulse for those few seconds.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Thank you for raising my pulse for those few seconds.

The pleasure was all mine.

 

[michabo]

If the evidence contradicts the bible, it is false. Simple as that, I wish people were more unbias and open minded to this possibility. We must approach the evidence with an open mind and the possiblity that God created the universe useing Creationism

(emphasis mine)

It seems to me, and correct me if this is a foolish judgement, that it is you who are not approaching the evidence with an open mind. After all, you have already committed to the conclusion before looking at the evidence. How open minded can you possibly be?

I think that I, and many if not all of the others, would be delighted to be persuaded by a creationist who provides us with evidence which can make their case.

 

[Oncedeceived]

(emphasis mine)

It seems to me, and correct me if this is a foolish judgement, that it is you who are not approaching the evidence with an open mind. After all, you have already committed to the conclusion before looking at the evidence. How open minded can you possibly be?

I think that I, and many if not all of the others, would be delighted to be persuaded by a creationist who provides us with evidence which can make their case.

And would you look at it with an open mind?

 

[HRE]

If it has not already been soundly and totally refuted multiple times on this very forum...then, yes, of course.

 

[michabo]

And would you look at it with an open mind?

I always try. I don't have any committment to one conclusion or an other, and always want to learn.

 

[Oncedeceived]

If it has not already been soundly and totally refuted multiple times on this very forum...then, yes, of course.

Okay, then you give me the run down on what has been refuted multiple times and I will then go from there.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I always try. I don't have any committment to one conclusion or an other, and always want to learn.

Would you then agree that if evidence supports creation even if it doesn't totally prove it that you would consider it as plausible?

 

[michabo]

Would you then agree that if evidence supports creation even if it doesn't totally prove it that you would consider it as plausible?

I would agree that if someone can provide a falsifiable description of creation which can account for all observations, then it would be plausible. Note that it isn't enough to point to a handfull of observations which support it; if observations falsify the theory, then it is wrong and will never be plausible.

I would never ask for any theory to be totally proven - that's not the way science works.

 

[Mistermystery]

Okay, then you give me the run down on what has been refuted multiple times and I will then go from there.

Amoung many other things I would like it if creationists would stop saying things like "2nd law of thermodynamics contradicts evolution" or "there are no transitional fossils" and when there are transitionals shown you get " those aren't transitional enough". Also saying that "abiogenesis is tied into evolution" rubbish makes my head explode by now, ditto for "evolution equals atheism".

It would be really well if they all could just get the 5 major misconceptions down:
Evolution has never been observed.
Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
There are no transitional fossils.
The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.
Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.
Afterwards they can start working on "the list", by presenting evidence that either support those claims, or falsify the falsification raised on that page.

A quick visit on the forums shows what topics have been dealt with before here (and believe me, it would surprise me if you came up with a coherent claim that I haven't heard before).

 

[Oncedeceived]

Amoung many other things I would like it if creationists would stop saying things like "2nd law of thermodynamics contradicts evolution" or "there are no transitional fossils" and when there are transitionals shown you get " those aren't transitional enough". Also saying that "abiogenesis is tied into evolution" rubbish makes my head explode by now, ditto for "evolution equals atheism".

It would be really well if they all could just get the 5 major misconceptions down:
Evolution has never been observed.
Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
There are no transitional fossils.
The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.
Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.
Afterwards they can start working on "the list", by presenting evidence that either support those claims, or falsify the falsification raised on that page.

A quick visit on the forums shows what topics have been dealt with before here (and believe me, it would surprise me if you came up with a coherent claim that I haven't heard before).

Sounds like I am good to go then because I don't think that any of those things will be raised by me.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I would agree that if someone can provide a falsifiable description of creation which can account for all observations, then it would be plausible.

Now hold on there, you can't account for all observations in the evolution area either.


Note that it isn't enough to point to a handfull of observations which support it; if observations falsify the theory, then it is wrong and will never be plausible.

I would never ask for any theory to be totally proven - that's not the way science works.[/QUOTE]

OKay.

 

[CherylNMO]

the bible is the only evidence we need , it is GODS PERFECT WORD, however I will refrain from making this post too long and detailed since I seem to offend everyone and break the rules I guess. All the evidence is in GOds Word.
i dont trust sources from mans fallible thinking becuase tis non christian and naturaly because of our sin nature.
it is anti-God and atheist. If the evidence contradicts the bible, it is false. Simple as that, I wish people were more unbias and open minded to this possibility. We must approach the evidence with an open mind and the possiblity that God created the universe useing Creationism

I agree. I don't need evidence that God created the earth because I know he did. His Word said it and therefore, whatever God says is true and I believe in the Truth. What I just tell evolutionists is that we can just agree to disagree. No need to try to explain evolution to me. I never had to believe in it.

 

[Bushido216]

I agree. I don't need evidence that God created the earth because I know he did. His Word said it and therefore, whatever God says is true and I believe in the Truth. What I just tell evolutionists is that we can just agree to disagree. No need to try to explain evolution to me. I never had to believe in it.

The point, for Christians, isn't whether God created. We know He did. It's how. You can accept that God created and accept that He created the Universe ~15 billion years ago and allowed natural processes to get us to where we are today.

 

[Hydra009]

I agree. I don't need evidence that God created the earth because I know he did. His Word said it and therefore, whatever God says is true and I believe in the Truth. What I just tell evolutionists is that we can just agree to disagree. No need to try to explain evolution to me. I never had to believe in it.

The belief that God created the Earth =/= Creationism. Creationism is a belief of how God created the Earth, specifically a denial of macroevolution/speciation. Notice the difference?

And yes, there might need to explain evolution. IMHO, usually the denial of evolution comes from misunderstanding the theory of evolution.