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Eutychus & Lazarus - no tales from the crypt

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by 2002 Christian, Jul 6, 2002.

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  1. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    [font="Verdana, Arial"]Immortality is not received by us at the death of Christ.
    Immortality is not received by us at conception.
    Immortality is not received by us at birth.
    Immortality is not received by us at the "new birth."
    Immortality is not received by us at death.
    (scriptural exceptions include Moses, Enoch, and Elijah).

    Immortality and eternal life is a gift of God through Jesus Christ.

    Rom 2
    6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

    2 Tim 1
    10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

    1 Cor 15
    22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
    44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
    51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

    John 14
    2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

    Lazarus had no tales of conscious life in "Abraham's bosom" between the time he died and before he was resurrected by Jesus (before the death & resurrection of Christ).

    Neither did Eutychus have a tale of conscious life between his death and raising by the Apostle Paul (after the death & resurrection of Christ.)
    [/font]
     
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  2. SCJ

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    I firmly believe that you immediately enter the spiritual world when you die and are immediately with God in Heaven, which is outside of the constraints of time. With Eutychus and Lazarus, and Jarius's daughter, etc. I believe that God (being Omniscient) forknew that they would be raised from the dead...therefore they weren't immediately part of the Kingdom as everyone else is, because it's clear (from Lazarus' story) that once we are there...there is a great gulf that cannot be passed.

    So basically, it's just a matter of not being able to fool God. "Oops! Paul raised you from the dead Eutychus, I guess you have to go back now....didn't see that coming!"
     
  3. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    Show me a verse that says immortality is a birthright, if you can.
     
  4. SCJ

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    Confusing me here? You mean in context with this thread (the second birth) or are you talking about how God knows beforehand who will become partakers of Glory and who will not?
     
  5. SCJ

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    Oh, I see. I thought you were talking about what happens to us when we cease to live on this earth...

    I agree with all of these. My statement meant that God just knows who will receive salvation and doesn't mean that it is given at birth to anyone. It is a gift, given through faith in Jesus Christ.

    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved." (Ephesians 1:3-6)

    "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." (Romans 9:16)

    As far as being immediately with God when we die. The poor man in the Lazarus tale was immediately in Heaven upon death, the NT speaks of us being reunited with our bodies at the end of times (so a bodily ressurection does take place).

    "For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." (2 Corinthians 5:1-8)

    Paul speaks of this just prior to speaking of the BEMA seat of judgement for Christians at the end.
     
  6. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    I'm not referring to the same Lazarus as you. I refer to the one Jesus rose from the dead. (The parable can be discussed on another thread.)

    Life (everlasting life) is a gift from God that is given through rapture or resurrection. Man (the whole person) is mortal, apart from God's gift.
     
  7. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

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    ...still waiting for that text...
     
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