Eucharist question

[seebs]

This came up in General Apologetics, I'm reposting it here on behalf of one of the friendly neighborhood atheists, who can't post here:

I couldn't care less whether or not something a hungry man eats is sacred. If a starving man came into your church and all you could feed him was the Eucharist, would you give it to him?

This is a very interesting question. My thinking is, in the purely hypothetical case, the answer would be "yes", but in the *practical* case, there's always some other food available, or un-consecrated wafers, or *something*.

However, it's hard for me to be sure that Christ would object to feeding the starving. And yet, it's obviously a misuse of a sacramental thing, and yet... I'm confused.

O Wise Ones?

 

[geocajun]

well first this is my opinion, I suggest for an authoritative answer, one should check with a Priest.

Luke 6:3

Jesus says "So you have not read what David did when he and his followers were hungry -- how he went into the house of God and took the loaves of the offering and ate them and gave them to his followers, loaves which the priests alone are allowed to eat?"

this is a near impossible situation, but we are speaking hypothetically after all....

Most parishes have on-hand boxes of communion bread which have not been concecrated and *could* be used for this purpose...
I think if a situation were really so bad that the last food practically reachable was the concecreated body, of our Lord Jesus Christ, then lets get this guy baptized if needed, he can give a confession, and lets celebrate Mass together =o)

 

[seebs]

What if the guy isn't ready or willing to convert?

It's a very interesting thing, because it puts into opposition two of our moral rules that are normally not in conflict. It's always a surprise when you find a circumstance where that happens.

 

[chelcb]

Seebs,

If I were the priest and if the hungry were Catholic I would ask him if he wanted to confess and then I would give him the body of Jesus. There has been many saints that would live only on the daily Eucharist with out any other food. I would just give him Jesus and let Jesus take care of the rest.

But based on this, I dunno. The priest and the hungry might want to think twice if he is not Catholic and or does not wish to repent.

1 Corth. chapter 11:

'When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is not to eat the Lord's supper For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] not For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread:
And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me
After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."

 

[geocajun]

Originally posted by seebs
What if the guy isn't ready or willing to convert?

It's a very interesting thing, because it puts into opposition two of our moral rules that are normally not in conflict. It's always a surprise when you find a circumstance where that happens.

well as I said in my previous post, this is a near impossible situation.
your scenerio relies on:

1. Absolutly no available food within a practical reach. (takes a long time to starve to *death*)
2. Absolutly no unconcecrated communion bread in the parish.
   [/list=1]
   
   In a case where a man refuses to convert I would personally give him what he needs to live -
   I do not think this could happen myself... if a person were so adamant that they were in no way going to do what is asked of them to receive help in a Church, they likely would not have bothered to enter it.
   I like the old saying "there are no atheists in fox holes" and I think the person would convert.

 

[panterapat]

Were he starving and in danger of death, he would have an urgent need for the nourishment of the Eucharist in a physical AND spiritual way. So, Yes IMO he could be given the Eucharist.

In Christ, Patrick

 

[Wolseley]

This is one of those questions like, "Can God make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?", or "If you could go back in time to the day Hitler was born, would you kill him?"

If a starving man came into my church, I'd take him into the church hall and feed him what was in the kitchen cupboards and the refrigerator. In the first place, the Eucharist, while possessing food value, is primarily spiritual food; it is not intended for physical sustenance.

I don't know what the calorie count on a wafer of unleavened bread is, but I can bet that it won't be enough to sustain a starving man. He'd have to eat a bushel basket full of hosts to get anywhere, and that'd be the equivalent of eating nothing but five loaves of bread. No protein, no vegetables, just carbs.

You don't feed starving people nothing but carbs.

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

1st Samuel, Chapter 21.

Read it, might help, might not. Certainly adds context to the discussion.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by Wolseley
This is one of those questions like, "Can God make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?", or "If you could go back in time to the day Hitler was born, would you kill him?"

If a starving man came into my church, I'd take him into the church hall and feed him what was in the kitchen cupboards and the refrigerator. In the first place, the Eucharist, while possessing food value, is primarily spiritual food; it is not intended for physical sustenance.

I don't know what the calorie count on a wafer of unleavened bread is, but I can bet that it won't be enough to sustain a starving man. He'd have to eat a bushel basket full of hosts to get anywhere, and that'd be the equivalent of eating nothing but five loaves of bread. No protein, no vegetables, just carbs.

You don't feed starving people nothing but carbs.

 

Wols-

That was exactly my thought as well but you have raised an interesting point, I know the accidents of the bread does not change but do you thinks its nutritional value would stay the same as well?

 

[Wolseley]

As far as physical nutrition goes, I believe so. As I said, the Eucharist is primarily spiritual food.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by Wolseley
As far as physical nutrition goes, I believe so. As I said, the Eucharist is primarily spiritual food.

 

This just bares witness to how deep a mystery the Eucharist is. He is spiritual food yet he is substantially present. Good thing we are not required to understand, only believe.

"Lord I believe, help my unbelief."

 

[Ruhama]

I think the Eucharist only becomes Eucharist in the context of the ceremony. Until then, it is food.

This is like Jesus and his disciples "breaking the sabbath" by breaking off heads of grain because they were hungry.

This is a tradition only that would be broken.

 

[Kotton]

Originally posted by Ruhama
I think the Eucharist only becomes Eucharist in the context of the ceremony. Until then, it is food.

This is like Jesus and his disciples "breaking the sabbath" by breaking off heads of grain because they were hungry.

This is a tradition only that would be broken.

True, it becomes the Body and Blood at the concecration, but what remains is kept in the Tabranacle, and is still the real presence of Jesus Christ.

This is no tradition, but a matter of belief from the Deposit of Faith. There is far more to the Real Presence in the Eucharist than just a tradition as it is a following of Christ's words.

Kotton