Ethical problems with IVF.

[michabo]

Fertility clinics routinely produce far more human embryos than they implant so that they can select only the best and most promising. What happens to the rest?

Some go to stem cell researchers. In fact, most of the stem cells used in research come from fertility clinics and not from abortion clinics as some people seem to imagine. Some others get frozen or uncerimoniously flushed.

When it comes time to implant the embryos, not just one embryo is used but several with the hope that all but one will fail (die).

To all of the anti-choicers out there, if every embryo is human life and every embryo has a soul, then why aren't you doing something to shut down fertility clinics instead of worrying about abortions? The number of lost "human" lives through fertility clinics dwarfs those in abortions!

Oh, won't someone please think of the embryos!?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

All excellent points. You probably won't get many responses from the opposition....you provided a pretty air-tight argument.

People in general can be very one-sided and that's why people can find it acceptable to dispose of thousands of embryos just so a couple that's too picky to adopt can have a child, but if a girl has an abortion rather than put the child up for adoption (which most end up getting shuffled to foster homes for the first 18 years of their life), they're viewed as the selfish ones.....there are some crazy mentalities out there.

 

[Adriac]

At the same time, there are many who honestly believe that fertility clinics are just as bad. Since these are coincidentally the same people who decry bombing, you probably still won't get too much from them

 

[Aimee30]

Very funny! Makes me take into consideration the beloved words of one my favorite sacastic Christians--and no he isn't perfect as I don't agree with every song he's made--but here's some words of wisdom from the lyrics book, believe me it is a book and not the album cover, that came with a 2 CD set I bought. It's about a song called "I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good." If you want a link, I provided one below, but I'll just skip around in his commentary to provide the important details to help understand the quote:
"A very incendiary song indeed (in reference to the song title mentioned above).* Reasonable people on both sides of the abortion debate could argue that was not a song that needed to be written, but it was the unreasonable ones that made the most noise: The director of an abortion clinic in San Diego threatened a lawsuit against a video show that aired the "Clinic" clip, and when I called here at the show's request to explain that it was satire, whe was so whining and obnoxious that I ended up giving her an earful on what I thought of her profession, then begged her to sue me.........**elderly bookstore owner in Arizona--He'd pulled the album because he thought it was wrong to blow up clinics, and I congratulated him on his integrity in choosing principle over commerce before gently explaining to him the song's satirical intent....***The flashing neon lyric in the middle of the song that says, The end don't justify the means anytime." What better example to use than a clinic bomber (except perhaps the nutcases that are now shooting abortionists?)"
*my own commentary
**skipping over Austrailian TV reference
***skip over a few words
Explanation of skips..a. don't want to do all that typing and b. want to make sure quote is within 20% of work ratio of entire lyric booklet.
I think I will post the link so I don't get in trouble for posting the word "nutcase"--
http://www.sockheaven.org/music/albums/ip1990/01.html
Pay attention to the second commentary...the first from a time when he wasn't so mellow.

 

[Robinsegg]

I abhor bombing of any kind (except, perhaps, the snowball variety). How anyone can bomb buildings/people in the name of life is absolutely beyond me.

That said, I do think fertility clinics that do not adopt out their leftover "snowflakes" are just as bad as abortion clinics. The concept that they implant several in the hopes that most will die doesn't seem to gel for me. You see, they implant several with the hopes that one or two will work, because there's a high failure rate. I suppose I could be mistaken, but that's the information I have.

Does that give you the response you hoped for?

Rachel

 

[michabo]

You see, they implant several with the hopes that one or two will work, because there's a high failure rate. I suppose I could be mistaken, but that's the information I have.

In IVF, several embryos are implanted, but the expecting couple generally only wants one child. The doctors don't know which embryo is strongest and the would-be mother wants the best, so they implant several with he hopes that all but one will die and the strongest will survive. If all three survive, then the mother has a difficult birth, and the infants may have health problems.

 

[Mayflower1]

They are playing god doing that... at the same time, you would be playing god bombing them. Let God judge, that isn't for man to decide...

 

[Harpuia]

Correction... he had an air-tight argument, except for one thing.

Telling us to go bomb fertility clinics.

Uh huh... that made your case drop like a house of cards.

 

[michabo]

Telling us to go bomb fertility clinics.

Oh come on. Who among us hasn't bombed some public building? I'm just saying too many people are bombing abortion clinics and maybe they should consider branching out.

 

[vitodabona]

Oh come on. Who among us hasn't bombed some public building? I'm just saying too many people are bombing abortion clinics and maybe they should consider branching out.

Why stop with fertility clinics, what about sperm banks do you realize how much seed they spill. They have slaughtered entire universes of potential people in comparison to fertility clinics and Planned Parenthood.

 

[seebs]

a couple that's too picky to adopt can have a child

This is a cruel characterization. The instinctive desire to have children "of your own" is not a question of "pickiness". Many people would rather have their own children than healthier, genuis-level, children born of someone else.

 

[Adriac]

Why stop with fertility clinics, what about sperm banks do you realize how much seed they spill. They have slaughtered entire universes of potential people in comparison to fertility clinics and Planned Parenthood.

Sperm banks? How about the pornography industry! We're talking about... uh... Quadrillions of deaths each day!

 

[vitodabona]

Sperm banks? How about the pornography industry! We're talking about... uh... Quadrillions of deaths each day!

You can't touch the porn industry, with out it all the congressmen and senators would have nothing to do.

 

[CSmrw]

Never mind the qualifiers. BOMB CLINICS!!!!!

 

[MoonlessNight]

Forget abortion clinics, fertility clinics are the real slaughter houses! They routinely produce far more human embryos than they implant so that they can select only the best and most promising. What happens to the rest?

Some go to stem cell researchers. In fact, most of the stem cells used in research come from fertility clinics and not from abortion clinics as some people (like George Bush) seem to imagine. Some others get frozen or uncerimoniously flushed.

When it comes time to implant the embryos, not just one embryo is used but several with the hope that all but one will fail (die).

I do in fact have problems with fertility clinics for these reasons.

To all of the anti-choicers out there, if every embryo is human life and every embryo has a soul, then why aren't you doing something to shut down fertility clinics instead of worrying about abortions? The number of lost "human" lives through fertility clinics dwarfs those in abortions!

The problem I have with the term "anti-choice" is that people against abortion have nothing against free choice. The argument has nothing to do with choice. It's no different than arguing that pro-choicers are "anti-life" because they obviously want to kill babies. But we all know that's not the case.

People against abortions are only against choice in so far as the choice to murder. But I think most "pro-choice" people are against that choice as well, they just disagree where it occurs.

But of course no one will ever stop to consider the actual arguments of the other side and instead will argue on issues that have nothing to do with what's at stake (let's face it, the only thing we disagree with is when life begins, yet that is rarely argued, probably because we know it's almost impossible to argue.) Fun.

 

[Animus]

But what about all those innocent embryos that would be destroyed in the blast?

 

[RuthlessFunkGotBomb]

Scrambled eggs I guess

 

[michabo]

But of course no one will ever stop to consider the actual arguments of the other side and instead will argue on issues that have nothing to do with what's at stake

I didn't realize that there was an argument for human life beginning at conception beyond "god said it, I believe it."

You realize that we're talking about single cells, or groups of cells that haven't differentiated at all?

If the argument is that there is something sacred about this life, I have to wonder what you're smoking. There isn't any nervous system yet. There are more cells in a fly's brain than get destroyed in a clinic in a week, which, unless you want to champion fly rights, says that the argument is morally bankrupt.

(let's face it, the only thing we disagree with is when life begins, yet that is rarely argued, probably because we know it's almost impossible to argue.) Fun.

If someone that believes that single cells are sacred, maybe it seems impossible. I can only imagine.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why stop with fertility clinics, what about sperm banks do you realize how much seed they spill. They have slaughtered entire universes of potential people in comparison to fertility clinics and Planned Parenthood.

Shhhhh!!!!!! If they start bombing sperm banks, that's going to cut my monthly income in half

 

[KarateCowboy]

Forget abortion clinics, fertility clinics are the real slaughter houses! They routinely produce far more human embryos than they implant so that they can select only the best and most promising. What happens to the rest?

Some go to stem cell researchers. In fact, most of the stem cells used in research come from fertility clinics and not from abortion clinics as some people (like George Bush) seem to imagine. Some others get frozen or uncerimoniously flushed.

When it comes time to implant the embryos, not just one embryo is used but several with the hope that all but one will fail (die).

To all of the anti-choicers out there, if every embryo is human life and every embryo has a soul, then why aren't you doing something to shut down fertility clinics instead of worrying about abortions? The number of lost "human" lives through fertility clinics dwarfs those in abortions!

Oh, won't someone please think of the embryos!?

Ahem. They're not just any embryos. They're human embryos. Amazing how clever we can get when we want to dehumanize.

"You're not a human, you're an adolescent!".

"You're not a human, you're a Jew!"

"You're not a human, you're a fetus!"

"You don't think like me, therefore you're not human!"
The above could be used for both a human fetus or a human infidel.