Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I guess that explains why you are not able to properly exegete anything... You don't understand it.I never play games! Oh, please ask again! Have no idea what you are referring to!
A typical response from one who would argue against salvation by grace alone...the only thing you have in the end is nonsensical innuendos and like statements.I guess that explains why you are not able to properly exegete anything... You don't understand it.
Actually I don't argue against salvation by grace through faith. I acknowledge what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-10.A typical response from one who would argue against salvation by grace alone...the only thing you have in the end is nonsensical innuendos and like statements.
I tell you what OLE Stan, it is obvious that you believe in works and I don't, I believe in Grace Alone... So, I exegete huh? Well, I believe Jesus is Lord and Savior and I believe it is ALL of him and none of me! So we will just have to agree to disagree and move on...I will give you the last word, take your best shot.
There you go again, can't be truthful, you must twist my words....I said" you argue salvation by grace alone" instead of your salvation by grace through faith in a most famous passage and of course true. You subtlety avoid my statement: I say by grace ALONE and you do not, you can only cling to salvation by your works as well....you ignore the second part of you quoted verse.....not of your works.....that means by grace alone, which you do not believe in!Actually I don't argue against salvation by grace through faith. I acknowledge what Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8-10.
You're the one twisting your own words and mine. I've never argued that one is saved by grace alone so I'm not sure where you would get that, unless you're deliberately trying to misrepresent or equivocate about what I have said? Why would you misquote scripture or misquote me?There you go again, can't be truthful, you must twist my words....I said" you argue salvation by grace alone" instead of your salvation by grace through faith in a most famous passage and of course true. You subtlety avoid my statement: I say by grace ALONE and you do not, you can only cling to salvation by your works as well....you ignore the second part of you quoted verse.....not of your works.....that means by grace alone, which you do not believe in!
But, I do apologize, I did say you had the last word on this subject....I'm respectfully done!
I said this:
"The Bible never says or even suggests that justification is based on continuing in anything. If so, what verse says that?"
Maybe you're unaware of just how much of a dodge that really is. In fact, there aren't any, or if there were, it would have been quite easy to find at least one of them. So your claim has been proven wrong by failing to provide any verses.
More disingenuous claims. Again, your unsubstantiated claim is proven wrong by failure to provide even one of them.
And just so you know, I read through the entire NT monthly. So I know well what it says.
More importantly is the FACT that the Bible never says or even suggests that justification can be lost. If it could, why are there no verses that make that claim?
As a noun, of course it is supernatural. As a verb, it is not.
Sure I did. I pointed out that those passages are in parallel with Eph 5, which says such lifestyle common to ALL 3 passages results in NOT HAVING an inheritance IN the kingdom. iow, they will get in, but they will NOT HAVE an inheritance.
But those unfamiliar with the doctrine of eternal rewards will not understand any of this.
All passages are good. Which brings up the whole point of the OP: what are all those verses good for, if they don't teach eternal security?
But, back to Jn 15. Jesus' point was service to Him. The farming metaphor is about service. Branches that don't produce are not used for service. It's that simple. The verse cannot be about loss of salvation because of the verses where Jesus promises that those who believe HAVE eternal life, and those who have eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.
n fact, Paul refutes such an idea by describing eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23 and then saying that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29.
No, it doesn't. Again, it's about service and when the Jews didn't believe in their Messiah, they were cut off from God's service. Recall that the nation of Israel was chosen to serve.
What do you mean by "early Christians"? Initially you noted ECF, which are those who came AFTER the writers of Scripture. The last book of the NT is Revelation, written somewhere between 85-96 AD. So writers AFTER the Bible was finished would ALL be considered second century.
And I have already pointed out that what the ECFs wrote are commentaries. They are not inspired writings.
I personally don't care what those in the 2nd century thought. I care very much what the writers of Scripture wrote. Do you see the difference?
It won't make any sense to any who have not been taught about the doctrine of eternal reward, which seems to be fairly common.
It's a mistake to equate harvest with eternal life.
To have a harvest, one must WORK FOR IT. You know, plant, water, grow, prune, etc, and finally, collect the harvest. If eternal life is a harvest, then salvation is by works. I totally reject that idea. We are saved by grace, which those of the LOS side seem not to understand.
Which is the whole point of being a reward. Rewards are earned. Gifts are not.
Either. Paul even made comment on motivation:
1 Cor 9:17 - For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me
Point being; if one wants to be rewarded, they are going to have to earn it. But those who aren't interested, won't have an inheritance in the kingdom. They will be there, but they will not have any inheritance there.
This has been my magic number all along also: 100 anti-OSAS NT verses!The FG2: "The Bible never says or even suggests that justification
is based on continuing in anything. If so, what verse says that?"
samir: It's all over the New Testament. I could probably post 100 verses ...
'Tis quite simple ... you don't know WHO They were referring to!God said he would NEVER forsake you OR leave you!
Jesus said he would NEVER lose who God gives him!
Either God and Jesus tell the truth OR they both lie about this.
I just don't see how one can live in denial of this!
Not that I don't sin but I won't willfully sin because I have no desire to willfully sin.
That is the whole point...I choose not to!
Let me ask you again....do you have a desire to willfully sin?....Will you ever chose to?
This is a true statement but, it is not to who you think it is. This message was to Gnostics of time; to non-believers...not to believers as you think!
Do you confess every sin, 24/7 with no failure?Sometimes I sin, but I confess the sin and am forgiven.
NEWS Flash!...it is either non-believers or believers.....why would Jesus say he would never lose who God gave him and be referring to non-believers....which God hasn't given him yet!'Tis quite simple ... you don't know WHO They were referring to!
This is a true statement but, it is not to who you think it is. This message was to Gnostics of time; to non-believers...not to believers as you think!
Do you confess every sin, 24/7 with no failure?
Please prove that John was writing to gnostics.
That seems inconsistent with the rest of the book.
Sounds like he is writing to Christians to me:
- Yes and I made the same mistake. The verse 1 John1:9 gave me concern until I understood what was going on. I am not a theologist, but I study many on this passage. It appears to me that Gnostics were prevalent in John's time and he was explaining to how to become saved....not to those who were already saved!
- Of course you have a right to your opinion but your thoughts do not match the rest of the Gospel narrative for me..... your salvation is not dependent on you asking for forgiveness all the time....if it were and under God's expectation you would have to ask for forgiveness for every sin and never miss one, not once! Jesus died once for all and all sins....your proof of salvation or , if you will, works required is the possession of a repentant heart....not your own actual works like asking for forgiveness as a requirement of God.
In the end, it comes down to this...who is a true believer and saved and who isn't.Why did Jesus say this?
Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
According to if you have received Christ in or not...it is that simple. You have Christ in you, yes?...like me, won't you be persistent? BTW, nothing a human does is ever perfect!
I am not sure what you are pointing to here other than you might be worried about your own working! Don't forget these two things:and this,
Philippians 3:13
Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have laid hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead.
It is mostly hard when you take a single verse out of context. Paul, yearned to be perfect, yet he knew he was not and he always urged himself and others to forge forward.....don't forget what he said in Romans 8:1.....he worked at never looking at the past only the future but regardless, he KNEW, when he faltered , there was no condemnation.
Why did Peter say this?
1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.
Sure @Thursday but please keep this is mind...I believe that I am saved by God's grace alone and nothing I could every do makes any difference!
Terrible dangerous for you perhaps because you have to have continued works to acquire salvation...I on the other hand believe in Grace alone by God alone and not by any my own works or it wouldn't be grace!!That's a terribly dangerous position to take.
Only those who endure will be saved. If you deny him, he will deny you. Sin can shipwreck your faith. Anyone who puts their hand to the plow but then looks back is not worthy of the Kingdom.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
Terrible dangerous for you perhaps because you have to have continued works to acquire salvation...I on the other hand believe in Grace alone by God alone and not by any my own works or it wouldn't be grace!!I have no plans or chance of denial.....sorry you appear to have that chance!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?