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Originally posted by DaveKerwin
I will write this out with premesis and a conclusion.
- 1. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
- 2. for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29)
- 3. eternal life is a gift from God (premise 1)
- 4. gifts from God are irrevocable / impossible to retract (premise 2)
- 5. Therefore, eternal life is impossible to retract.
so, wblastyn
wld you give it back to God?
Of course they didn't fall beyond recovery. If they repent they are recovered, same as for anyone else. Unrepentant people are not recovered.Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!
- "of all sorts" is to be taken as representative samples of all levels of Jewish society. Christ saved some Pharisees, some prostitutes, some fishermen etc and so forth. Anyone of Israel will be saved when God takes away his sins."Pas" is used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts
Originally posted by Andrew
quote: "She has a great point. A true sheep cannot leave the flock, because the shephard will seek him each time he tries to go astray. I think it's important that we do not frustrate the grace of God. We should accept it for what it is, unmerited favor. If it's unearned, that how can we "earn" the loss of it?"
amen! and a sheep cannot turn back into a goat or dog or pig -- one cannot reverse the greatest miracle and be UN-born-again.
Originally posted by Thunderchild
Of course they didn't fall beyond recovery. If they repent they are recovered, same as for anyone else. Unrepentant people are not recovered.
1. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23) Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Quite simple, isn't it? If your master is sin - you reap the reward of sin. If your master is Christ - you reap the reward of Christ.
2. for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29)Rom 11:26 - 27 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. God will not revoke his gifts and calling - all Israel will be saved when God takes away their sins. Again, same as for anyone else... Note that "pas" translated as "all" does not mean "every one." - "of all sorts" is to be taken as representative samples of all levels of Jewish society. Christ saved some Pharisees, some prostitutes, some fishermen etc and so forth. Anyone of Israel will be saved when God takes away his sins.
3. eternal life is a gift from God (premise 1)Agreed. "servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life" - well, loyal servants, anyway. Jesus did have a few things to say about unrighteous servants.
4. gifts from God are irrevocable / impossible to retract (premise 2)mis-applied with regard to salvation at the individual level - this premise is based on what?
5. Therefore, eternal life is impossible to retract.based on a false premise at point 4, therefore invalid. The "gift" is sanctification - the end result of sanctification is eternal life. Eternal life is not a gift of God, but results from the gift of God. And the gift of God, "sanctification," is bestowed upon whom? Those who remain in him.
This word "foreknowledge" is interesting - it is translated from "pro-ginosko" (compare pro-life, pro-active, arguments pro etc. It is the opposite of contra). Why are people trying to make it mean the same as would be meant by "pre-ginosko?"
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