For one thing, there are a lot of "christian books" out there that are full of crap. Also, what "seems" logical doesn't mean that it actually is logical. The atheist arguments I've seen so far, some of them do make sense when you first read them. But I found that this was because I wasn't studying the rebuttals and arguments very carefully and closely. I was jumping to conclusions.
I've seen some christian defenses that seemed desperate. They were usually arguments out of emotion, and not factual based on evidence. I've seen christian rebuttals too that are convoluted, because the christian was asked something outside of their field of study. Since christian apologetics covers quite the field, not every apologist knows the answer to every question. Sadly, some christians qill give you an answer using twisted logic and manipulating facts in order to at least provide an answer. It's not about what seems logical, it's about what actually is logical.
Okay, fine. I'll change my wording for you. Atheist arguments are logical. Christian arguments are convoluted. For some examples:
Logical atheist arguments:
-The Bible endorses slavery. ("If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." Ex 21:20)[FONT=arial,Helvetica][/FONT]
-God's brutal murders contradict his claims of love. (In 2 Kings, God leads a pack of bears to maul a group of children because they called his prophet a "baldhead")
-God has absolutely no evidence, no more evidence than a Flying Spaghetti Monster God.
-God created me knowing I would be condemned.
Illogical Christian rebuttals:
-Slavery was part of the dominant culture then. He didn't support it, he just allowed it.
-That was the OLD testament. God was different back then.
-God is a God of faith. You have to have faith.
-He gave you free will. You chose to go to Hell.
Logical atheist rebuttals:
-An omnipotent God who freed a nation of Jews from Egyptian control could tell the Jews themselves not to enslave people.
-So you're saying an all-knowing God in the 1st century AD just changed his mind all of a sudden?
-Why?
-Yes, but if God still created me with the personality traits that would put me into Hell. If he loves me so much, why did he create me the way he did?
You don't need every single limb in order to do the work that God has set out for you to do. What difference would it make if God did heal amputees? The bible also promises that those who are faithful to Christ will be resurrected with a new body. So God will do some amputee healing, according to the bible.
Well, it would create a heck of a lot of new converts. God would have tons of new followers to join him in Heaven.
And, people here in America claim that God answers far more trivial prayers than amputee healing. For instance, my pastor claims that God inspired a man to donate money to a partner church so that they could
repaint their exterior. Yes. Repaint their exterior.
Nevermind the quadraplegics who would love nothing more than to be able to enjoy their life again instead of being confined to a hospital bed until they die. Praise Jesus we have a sparkling white church!
Glad you asked. I had been severely depressed and suicidal from 16-21. I tried a few different meds, tried counselling, even studied 3 psychology courses in college to look for a cure, and went to a few therapy groups at the hospital.
I had rejected God earlier, because I thought christianity was religious and myth. In fact I hated christianity and church entirely. But since I was making some serious serious plans to kill myself, and because of all my personality problems, I saw no other options but suicide in order to relieve some of the pain. It was through my studying psychology and going to counselling that pointed out the problem, that I have never had a loving relationship with anyone before.
But since I had about a week left before I was gonna kill myself, I cried out one last time for help. Outside having a smoke, without even thinking about it I cried out in my mind "is anyone out there who cares? Is anyone there who knows how to help me? Is there a love force of some kind that cares about me? Is there a god who can hear me who knows how to heal me? Cuase it there is, then this god love force thing has to reveal himself to me now, or else I'm done for. If there is a god, then you need to show me that you love me, you need to show me that you care in some way that I'll never miss. "
Now I wasn't expecting any answer, because I didn't exactly believe if any kind of God, or spirit, or force existed. Actually I wasn't sure if God existed, I didn't believe in God, but I believe that there was at least a small possibilty that God existed.
Also, all the psychology I learned explained that ppl with depression and major personality issues will probably never fully heal, but can at best reduce some of the symptoms, either thru meds or therapy, and that it would take months maybe years for any therapy to really have much of an effect. I didn't react to most of the meds I took, the one I did react to made it worse.
But I woke up about 3 or 4 days after I prayed that prayer, and I had no depressed feelings or suicidal thoughts whatsoever, and haven't had any ever since, nor have I felt compelled once to take my own life. And the personality and attitude changes and thoughts that happened to me immediately after this huge change matched that of the bible of someone who is new in Christ. So that's why I believe in God and have a personal relationship with Him. Because if God doesn't exist, then I wouldn't exist either. ( I also did some studying becuase I wanted to make sure that I wasn't in some sort of a placebo affect, or in some power of suggestion mode, or believing in something that has no historical credibilty to it.)
I'm sure there are thousands of Muslim terrorists with stories just as life-changing and faithful as yours. Yet you insist that they are all wrong?
Been there. I found out that what I was doing was praying for God's help when I hadn't even prayed and asked Him to come into my life first. My prayers were just thoughts in my head, thoughts that weren't even directed toward God. Finally I rejected God and christianity as I mentioned above, because I couldn't make any sense of it, and it all came a cross as myth, a way of life for ppl who are locked up in ideology.
I have to ask, have you prayed and asked God to answer some of the questions that you have about the world?
No. I wanted him to show me he existed before I started asking him other questions.
Christianity though, isn't based on how you feel. It's based on fact, facts that lead to faith. I can't really tell what your faith is like based on what you've posted, I'd need more details. You might have been like me and thought you were a christian because you went to church and "prayed" vain prayers because you thought that's what you had to do.
Nope. I already described my situation to you. I was desperately clinging to my faith, praying extremely sincere prayers for God to prove himself to me.
Dear m9lc. The first man, rapist, murderer,etc. accepts the Lord`s Gift of reconciliation with God, he is ready to repent, and become the person, or soul, which God wants to spend eternity with. The second man, although believing that he is " a good man," does not believe God, does not accept Jesus `s Gift of Redemption, because he does not believe it. We know God gave us free will, we can accept Him and His saving Grace, or we refuse His Gift. What is the natural out come, m9le? The believer joins God and his Christian brothers and sisters, in Heaven, the good man, who does not believe God, will end up in a place, in outer Darkness, without God, or other believing and saved Christians. I say this humbly and lovingly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.
For the last time: I didn't reject Christ's gift. He didn't show me that he gave it. It is absurd that God, as you claim, would throw a hissy fit over the fact that I don't accept his gift, when he hasn't even given any evidence that he gave it.
Here's a question that no one here has answered, even though I've asked it multiple times: Why did God never give me a clear sign that he existed, despite my frantic prayers?