ESV, any thoughts?

[StreetPreacher82]

I'm one of these who really enjoys checking out different translations and have recently stumbled upon the ESV. So far, I have really enjoyed the way it reads. I've also begun to notice that it is used in a number of recent Christian writings. My question is, however, does it have many faults? Or, is it known to have any bias? I've asked around and few of my friends have ever even picked up a copy, so I'm not 100% sure what to think.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

God Bless!

 

[mont974x4]

I have a copy and it's pretty good. It is one of the more accurate translations and is still a smooth and eazy read. I have not heard of any issues yet, but I'm sure some people have an issue with parts of it as people always have issues with parts of translations different than their favorites.

I ama bit of a Bible collector. I have eSword and have downloaded a few translations for it as well as having NASB, KJV, NKJV, ESV, and NIV. I have a variety of formats as well, regular Bible, study Bibles, archeological study Bible (NIV), Chronological Study Bible, and for CHRISTmas my wife is getting me the apologetics study Bible. I know that's what she got me because it was top of my wish list and we agreed to get eachother only one gift. LOL

 

[SummaScriptura]

I recently read an ESV reviewer who said the amount of difference between the RSV and the ESV was about 4% or so, if I remember correctly.

However, on occasion those "4%" seem to rather significantly improve the passage, imo. Here is Hebrews 1:1-4, first in the RSV then in the ESV. See if you like the differences.

In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs. (RSV)

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. (ESV)

 

[archaeologist2]

here is where you can get an analysis of the ESV:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...-501&ei=UTF-8&fp_ip=KR&pop=1&rd=r1&meta=vc=kr

my concern is the changes they have made and i would need more time to study them.

 

[archaeologist2]

in doing some further reading, it seems thatthe ESV is a revision of the RSV and my question is--why would we need a revision of the RSV?

we have plenty of Bibles which translate differently than that work and what would be gained by revising something that has 'competitors' and who allow us to see the truth.

i have read some things concerning the gender changes and the changes in the passages concerning the topic of homosexuals but would need more to read before deciding if this is a good work or not.

i do know that the more things are simplified, more is lost. i do not believe in 'dumbng down' whenit comes to scriptures and thatis a trend that has been taking place for the past 30 years or so and was started with the 'living bible' and is being carried on by more modern works like 'the message' and others.

 

[SummaScriptura]

in doing some further reading, it seems thatthe ESV is a revision of the RSV and my question is--why would we need a revision of the RSV?

we have plenty of Bibles which translate differently than that work and what would be gained by revising something that has 'competitors' and who allow us to see the truth.

i have read some things concerning the gender changes and the changes in the passages concerning the topic of homosexuals but would need more to read before deciding if this is a good work or not.

i do know that the more things are simplified, more is lost. i do not believe in 'dumbng down' whenit comes to scriptures and thatis a trend that has been taking place for the past 30 years or so and was started with the 'living bible' and is being carried on by more modern works like 'the message' and others.

There are a couple of reasons for doing an update to the RSV that I can think of.

For one, the RSV was shot down as the Bible of choice for conservatives from its beginning, the whole Isaiah 7:14 controversy et al. Being associated with the National Council of Churches didn't help it much either.

The version has steadily fallen from being in widespread usage.

Starting with an excellent translation and proceeding to make it more excellenter is a good thing. That they were simultaneously able to build upon a strong foundation while distancing themselves from the weak reputation of the RSV among conservatives was an example of excellent marketing as well.

 

[StreetPreacher82]

Starting with an excellent translation and proceeding to make it more excellenter is a good thing. That they were simultaneously able to build upon a strong foundation while distancing themselves from the weak reputation of the RSV among conservatives was an example of excellent marketing as well.

I think you are right on point there. There is nothing wrong with improving on things that are already good. I checked out your blog and enjoyed the article on the ESV with Apocrypha. I actually ordered one myself!

 

[cyberlizard]

There are a couple of reasons for doing an update to the RSV that I can think of.

For one, the RSV was shot down as the Bible of choice for conservatives from its beginning, the whole Isaiah 7:14 controversy et al. Being associated with the National Council of Churches didn't help it much either.

The version has steadily fallen from being in widespread usage.

Starting with an excellent translation and proceeding to make it more excellenter is a good thing. That they were simultaneously able to build upon a strong foundation while distancing themselves from the weak reputation of the RSV among conservatives was an example of excellent marketing as well.

all i want of a bible translation is just that... I want a translation. I do not want it to be colored by theological bias or basis, i do not want the text to be squeezed into a 'reform' mould or any other, I just want accuracy and downright translation consistency. I want to see words translated according to what they mean, rather than what they mean within a chosen theological package such as calvinism or armenianism.... is this too much to ask?



Steve

 

[SummaScriptura]

I think you are right on point there. There is nothing wrong with improving on things that are already good. I checked out your blog and enjoyed the article on the ESV with Apocrypha. I actually ordered one myself!

I'm happy to hear that.

I'm hoping the success of the two editions will incent Oxford to put out other products, such as a parallel ESV / NETS. As far as I know such an edition would be the first time in print of a parallel of the Septuagint and Masoretic texts in modern English.

 

[archaeologist2]

There are a couple of reasons for doing an update to the RSV that I can think of.

i read your points and i will just disagree. we have great english translations and there was no need for another one.

 

[SummaScriptura]

i read your points and i will just disagree. we have great english translations and there was no need for another one.

Okay then, how about this...

There was a need for a new English translation with broader inter-denominational appeal. Only the NIV has come close to being that widely accepted but it has fallen down on a couple of areas.

1. The NIV as come to be percieved to incorporate more paraphrases than is acceptable to some.
2. The NIV does not contain the books of the deuterocanon (for lack of a better term)

1. The ESV has gained the perceived adavantage of being the more accurate translation of the two, and
2. The ESV will be issued with the books of the deuterocanon (for lack of a better term) this January

These differences give the ESV an edge over the NIV in becoming more broadly acceptable across denominational boundaries

 

[mont974x4]

What do you think of it compared to the NASB and YLT?


I don't think a comparison to the NIV is quite fair, mainly because it does so heavily rely on paraphrases...although it is far better than such trash as The Message.

 

[SummaScriptura]

What do you think of it compared to the NASB and YLT?

The NASB and the YLT are more literal than the ESV as far as I can tell. The ESV has an edge over them in terms of memorability and readability. One should be aware, the ESV contains some paraphrasing, but then again all translations do to varying degrees.

I don't think a comparison to the NIV is quite fair, mainly because it does so heavily rely on paraphrases...although it is far better than such trash as The Message.

I compared the ESV to the NIV on the level of their degree of broad acceptance. The NIV is number one in that regard, but its lead is eroding to the ESV.

 

[oldsage]

i have read some things concerning the gender changes and the changes in the passages concerning the topic of homosexuals but would need more to read before deciding if this is a good work or not.

I would suggest you do read it. I have owned a copy of the ESV since it was published and greatly enjoyed the translation, even though I am an Arminian, I can read through the Reformed bias in the passages.

Gender in translations are not so firm as one may believe because of the semantic domain of words in the ancient languages. And as to the topic of homosexuality, the ESV is a translation of the Reformed tradition and one which Evangelicals can use to preach against immoral acts what ever they may be.

 

[oldsage]

all i want of a bible translation is just that... I want a translation. I do not want it to be colored by theological bias or basis, i do not want the text to be squeezed into a 'reform' mould or any other, I just want accuracy and downright translation consistency. I want to see words translated according to what they mean, rather than what they mean within a chosen theological package such as calvinism or armenianism.... is this too much to ask?



Steve

I personally do not believe you can get away from any bias in a translation. Even when I do translations I can see my slant.

 

[oldsage]

The NASB and the YLT are more literal than the ESV as far as I can tell. The ESV has an edge over them in terms of memorability and readability. One should be aware, the ESV contains some paraphrasing, but then again all translations do to varying degrees.


I compared the ESV to the NIV on the level of their degree of broad acceptance. The NIV is number one in that regard, but its lead is eroding to the ESV.

Yeah, the readability of the ESV is much better than NASB and Young's. While I still use the NASB for study from time to time, I tend to stay away from Young's because it's literalness. It may capture the words but not really the meaning of the author.

 

[archaeologist2]

Okay then, how about this...

There was a need for a new English translation with broader inter-denominational appeal. Only the NIV has come close to being that widely accepted but it has fallen down on a couple of areas

i am sure there are people who thought a new translation was in order, right now i am not one of them. i would have to read up on it more and see how the gender bending affects the message of the Bible.

if it softens the homosexual judgment then i doubt i would like it, actually if it softens any word about sin i would not like it.

the ESV is a translation of the Reformed tradition and one which Evangelicals can use to preach against immoral acts what ever they may be.

this is of great concern because i was in a discussion with some people and a 'christian' states 'pedophilia' is not mentioned in the Bible. well i had to straighten him out by informing him that all sexuals sins were listed under the generic terms.

when people make changes they have to be careful of the ramifications of their actions andnot change things to omit certain acts or commands.

 

[SummaScriptura]

i am sure there are people who thought a new translation was in order, right now i am not one of them. i would have to read up on it more and see how the gender bending affects the message of the Bible.

if it softens the homosexual judgment then i doubt i would like it, actually if it softens any word about sin i would not like it.



this is of great concern because i was in a discussion with some people and a 'christian' states 'pedophilia' is not mentioned in the Bible. well i had to straighten him out by informing him that all sexuals sins were listed under the generic terms.

when people make changes they have to be careful of the ramifications of their actions andnot change things to omit certain acts or commands.

I share your concerns. I am unaware of gender bending and softing the truth regarding immorality in the ESV. If you encounter any let me know, please. I am fairly sure this is not a worry with this version though.

BTW, I am arminian (a term I do not like) in slant regarding soteriology, and have not found anything contrary to that in the ESV.

The reason I do not like the term Arminian is I seek to avoid any theology that is in reaction to another.

Lord, if there be anything remnant in me from Jean Calvin or James Arminius, I pray Thee root it out. Amen.

 

[archaeologist2]

i do not know when i will get a copy ofit as the nearest christian book store is 1 hour 1/2 away. maybe when i go into town this weekend i will check it out

i do not pay attention to the arminian/calvinist debate as neither person who started those ideas are infallible and i am sure there are errors to both views.

 

[archaeologist2]

i have made plans to drive into town and get me a copy of the ESV and will check it out.