Essential Christianity

[stdaggett]

I ask you all:
What is essential Christianity? That is, what is necessary for a person to believe to be saved? or the negative way to put it, what must a person positively deny in order to be damned?
Another way to ask it is What are God's commands to us? Shall I assume here that we all will agree that we have no right whatsoever to disbelieve what God says is true and no right to disobey or call false a specific command of God? I think that is safe to say. Few would say that calling God a liar is OK, which is what positively disbelieving His commands amounts to.
To clarify- positively denying a belief is when you know the proposition and say that it is false. That is important because some people can be in the state of not affirming a belief yet not denying it either because they do not know about it. So, I asked what must a person positively deny to be damned with that distinction in mind.

Again the question is:
What are the essentials of Christianity?

I think that the variety of answers I would get and may get should lead us to think about this question a bit more. How is it that the essentials are so unknowable? Now the baptist may say that baptism is not an essential for salvation. But does not our Lord command it? Do we have the right to tell the Lord that he has no right to command something, or at the very least that not all His commands are binding upon us? A Presbyterian may say that God has commanded us to baptize our children. But when asked if a baptist is just as much a Christian as he, the answer is almost invariably "Yes", even emphatically "YES." But how can it be that if God positively commands infant baptism, that the baptist can be considered Christian for calling paedo-baptism a false practice? From a Presbyterian perspective, does that not amount to the baptist saying that God's command is false? It surely does? How then does the Presbyterian then refer to the Baptist as a Christian brother when the Baptist calls God a liar- again from the Pres. perspective? The Pres. may then retreat and say that it is not an essential. But then he is saying that God's commands may be regarded and disregarded as we mortals see fit. Or shall he retreat from the argument that the reason Presbyterians baptize their babies is because God commands it vis a vis the covenant? Then the practice becomes the mere invention of mere men and ought not be tolerated.
Now if the baptist is right and paedo-baptism is a false practice, wherefore does he call the Pres. his brother? For the Pres. passes off the inventions of men as the divine commands of Almighty God! Such audacity and pride is not fit the name of Christ but only of anti-Christ.
But who is right in the debate? One or the other. Not both. But how can we decide? Both have their scriptures that "plainly teach" doctrine A and not doctrine B.
This is not just theological wrangling. We are trying to find the Word of God. The Words of Life. Can we be so cavalier with them? Can we just agree to disagree about what Almighty God's commands are? Can we know what essential Christianity actually is and thus be Christian? Can the baptist and the presbyterian be right? The Law of Noncontradiciton says No. Can they both contain essential Christianity? One either calls God a liar or passes itself off as God. So the answer is No. Can both be in the state of not possessing essential Christianity? Yes, or course. They both can possess erroneous doctrine and either call God a liar or pass themsleves off as God.
And this is just dealing with Baptists and Presbyterians. I am sure that there are many other sects represented here. Fill in the blank. Who are you and what are you and then distinguish yourself from the others.

What do you believe is the base amount you must believe to be saved?
I think all of God's Word is just the bare minimum, no less than all of God's Word. The question is, how do we discover it?
Thanks.
St. Daggett

 

[jfer45]

What do you believe is the base amount you must believe to be saved?
St. Daggett

I do not know. Are you talking about salvation in terms of the traditional salvation as in where does one go in the afterlife? I do not know this either. It is interesting that God really cares what we BELIEVE. Does God really care about what is in our heads when we die? Are only Christians saved? Lots of questions, and obviously very few answers.

 

[stdaggett]

I do not know. Are you talking about salvation in terms of the traditional salvation as in where does one go in the afterlife? I do not know this either. It is interesting that God really cares what we BELIEVE. Does God really care about what is in our heads when we die? Are only Christians saved? Lots of questions, and obviously very few answers.

Belief implies not only head. It implies the greatest commandments. Love God with your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Head belief only is meaningless.
Thanks.
St. Daggett

 

[eoe]

(Luke 9:23) And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[stdaggett]

Given that there is no salvation outside of Christ, then I suppose that those who are not in Christ when they die are not saved.
Thanks.
St. Daggett

 

[stray bullet]

I ask you all:
What is essential Christianity? What is essential Christianity? That is, what is necessary for a person to believe to be saved? or the negative way to put it, what must a person positively deny in order to be damned?

The Catholic Church, which is the source of all truth and graces, provided by God. Only God can answer how much a person can turn away from the truth and grace to the point their soul is condemned. That is because the absence of knowledge, rejection of grace and committing of sins varies in gravity depending on the circumstances the person is in.

 

[light_eclipseca]

Essentially you need to believe the gospel and repent from living for yourself, and begin living for God in accordance with how He told us to live through Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles.

Umm, now the next question is, "what is the gospel?"

The bible says that the gospel is " repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near". What does that mean? It means that God's rulership in the hearts of men has begun and His reign is close to us and He can reign in us. One day the reign will be over the whole world, but for right now the kingdom of heaven exists in our hearts.

In order for God to rule in our hearts though, we must recieve the Holy Spirit, and in order to do that, we must accept the testimony of the Spirit and the Spirit testifies of Christ and who He is.

Here's a question that's blowing my mind right now. How can the gospel be "that Jesus died for your sins" if the apostles and Jesus' disciples were preaching the gospel before Jesus died and was resurrected? Look in the gospel accounts and see that the disciples preached the gospel before they figured out that Christ would die and be raised again.

 

[stdaggett]

So just the Gospel... what of the other commands? Is some of what God tells us essential and other thing He tells us non-essential as far as commands go?
Thanks.
St. Daggett

 

[jfer45]

Belief implies not only head. It implies the greatest commandments. Love God with your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Head belief only is meaningless.
Thanks.
St. Daggett

If I were to say I give me heart to Christ, or that Jesus is in my heart or I love Christ with all my heart I am still affirming something mentally in my head.

Believing something with your heart or soul or mind is nonetheless a requirement that one must affirm mentally in ones head.

 

[WithAllIAm]

Only a few essentials of Christianity:

1. Recognize that you are a sinner hopelessly and completely depraved and deserving of God's wrath.

2. Trust that Jesus took the penalty of your sins upon Himself and ask Him to forgive you.

3. Repent from sin, i.e. don't continue to live in a sinful lifestyle.

John tells us what is needed:
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Notice: "you who BELIEVE (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) in the name of the Son of God."

That's it! Jesus confirms this in John 3:16, that "whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Faith in Christ alone is all what is needed for you to receive eternal salvation. It is not of works lest any man should boast, as the apostle Paul would say. That alone rejects any religious explanation that requires [water] baptism, works, etc.

There are no catches, no other requirements - why not? Because we are hopelessly depraved such that we cannot even help ourselves a tiny bit. To assert that you have to be baptized (by water), or that you have to do good deeds (which should come as a natural consequence of being a Christian - the fruit of one's life controlled by the Spirit) is to literally say that Jesus' sacrifical death on the cross is NOT good enough to get you into heaven.

THAT is arrogance for you. Jesus did all the work necessary for you to get into heaven, Paul describes it as His gift to you. But as with every gift - you have to reach out and take it. How do you do that? By faith as the Bible says ("that whoever believes...").

It is simple to answer as Scripture just lays it out there plainly.

True Christianity is one which doesn't just talk the talk - it walks the walk. Don't get me wrong, good works are essential in a Christian's life as they are an outward reflection of the inward faith (i.e. evidence that you are a Christian - the fruits of your life). Being as ignorant about trees as I am, I probably wouldn't know that a particular tree was an apple tree until I saw the apples on the tree... This is what James and Jesus talked about in the Bible. You cannot be a true Christian and not have the actions which show it (NB: that doesn't mean that you won't fall into sin now and then because you are still in the presence of sin). Actions don't save a person, you see, but they are good evidence that they have been saved. They come about because of the change in one's heart as the Holy Spirit works in that person's life to make them Christ-like.

 

[jfer45]

I am again assuming we are talking about essentials in terms of salvation from hell in the afterlife. These "essentials" in other words may be called requirements. I do not believe that Christian life is about requirements and rewards.

I have a few questions for you. I have listed them after the requirements you have listed as essential to Christianity.

Only a few essentials of Christianity:

1. Recognize that you are a sinner hopelessly and completely depraved and deserving of God's wrath.

What is a sinner? Why do you believe we are all sinners at birth (or before) or whenever the sinful nature starts and are thus deserving of hell? Do you read the creation stories contained in the book of Genisis literally?

2. Trust that Jesus took the penalty of your sins upon Himself and ask Him to forgive you.

Do you have to believe that Jesus was God? Do you have to believe he was fully human? Do you have to believe he was fully God and fully human?

3. Repent from sin, i.e. don't continue to live in a sinful lifestyle.

Does one have to continually repent to maintain the "saved" status? What is your definition of a sinful lifestyle? Will God categorically deem certain lifestyles at death "sinful"?

 

[WithAllIAm]

I am again assuming we are talking about essentials in terms of salvation from hell in the afterlife. These "essentials" in other words may be called requirements. I do not believe that Christian life is about requirements and rewards.

They are just acknowledging the facts. You are a sinner whether or not you want to believe it. You are hopelessly screwed on your own whether or not you acknowledge it. You need a Saviour, whether or not you believe it. You cannot accept Jesus until you acknowledge that you need a Saviour from your sins. This is logical thinking - something that seems to be in seriously short supply on this forum (if I can say that, if not, I'm sure the mods will kindly edit my post). Both James, Paul, John, and Jesus say that you can't be a real Christian and still live a life of sin (i.e. not repent). See Acts 2:37-38, for example for a biblical authority on repentance and its relationship with receiving salvation.

Those three things that I said are neccessary for someone to be saved are stating the obvious and are biblically based and can be logically followed.

Allow me to lay it out in a way that even a four year old can understand:

What is a sinner? Why do you believe we are all sinners at birth (or before) or whenever the sinful nature starts and are thus deserving of hell? Do you read the creation stories contained in the book of Genisis literally?

Firstly, let's go through this logically, before I answer your basic questions. IF you do NOT believe that you are a sinner, totally depraved and helpless and deserving of God's wrath, THEN you are in NO need of a Saviour. Simple logic - if you aren't a sinner then no need for Jesus. If you don't have a problem, then you don't need anyone to fix it.

Do you follow that?

When you invite Jesus into your heart, you may pray a prayer like this:

God, I'm sorry for my sin. I turn from it right now [repentance]. I thank you for sending Jesus Christ to die on the cross for my sin [you must acknowledge that you are a sinner and have a debt that Jesus paid]. Jesus, I ask you to come into my heart and life right now [ask for forgiveness]. Be my Lord, Saviour, and friend. Help me to follow you all the days of my life as your disciple. Thank you for forgiving and receiving me right now. Thank you that my sin is forgiven and that I am going to heaven.

In Jesus' name I pray, amen.

In this prayer you admit that you are a sinner, that you are sorry for your sins and want to turn from them and run toward God with His help (i.e. repent), and that you believe and accept Christ's sacrifice for you and thank Him that you're now His.

Another word for sins in Ephesians 2:1 is transgressions or trespasses. This word speaks of a lapse or deviation from truth. In contrast to simply "missing the mark," this is a deliberate action. Because sin is a deliberate action, we cannot blame our sin on our society, or our environment, or our mental or physical state. Everyone has chosen to do what is wrong. A sinner, therefore, is one who has transgressed (or deliberately deviated from) God's will and/or Law.

The Bible is clear that we are not sinners because we sin, rather that we sin because we are sinners. I believe that all human beings are sinners from conception as David describes in Psalm 51:5 (GNB):

I have been evil from the day I was born; from the time I was conceived, I have been sinful. [Emphasis mine].

Even in Genesis 5:3 we read: "When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image." Read the verse before it ("When God created human beings, He made them in the likeness of God") and compare with this one, you'll see that something has changed. Read on to discover more...

For more information, please see Why is there death and suffering? by Ken Ham and Jonathan Sarfati available at: <answersingenesis.org/docs2002/death_suffering.asp>.

The following information is from it:

Now the Bible tells us that Adam was the head of the human race, representing each one of us, who are his descendants. Paul says in Romans 5:12–19 that we sin ‘in Adam,’ after the likeness of Adam. In other words, we have the same problem Adam had. When Adam rebelled against God, all human beings, represented by Adam, effectively said that they wanted life without God. [Emphasis mine].

Also, because we have offended a Holy and just God, there is a punishment for sin. Romans 6:23 says that "The wages of sin is death... ." Wages are something that you are paid for work rendered. In other words, you earn your ages. So, because we have all repeatedly sinned, we have earned the penalty of death, which is eternal torment and punishment in a place called hell.

Hence, all humans - as sinners - deserve eternal death.

To answer your question about my beliefs regarding Genesis, I read Genesis at face value - a literal interpretation, but not in the same way that many people believe "literal interpretation" means. I'm more traditional in my understanding of "literal interpretation." You see, we must read the Bible like any other authentic and important book. It was not written in mysterious or heavenly language to be deciphered only by those who possess some kind of magical code. Men recorded events that really happened, and spoke to their contemporaries in language they could undertsand. We must therefore use accepted laws of grammar and logic as we study the Bible, and this will lead us to interpret it literally.

The literal interpretation is a basic principle of Bible study, and maintains that every passage must be taken to mean exactly what it says [i.e. taken at face value] unless context or the expression itself indicates otherwise. Someone has aptly said, "If the literal sense makes good sense, seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense."

So by using the literal interpretation style I acknowledge symbolism and prophecy where I see it, rather than just continue to take it literally.

So, applying this to Genesis, I do not see anything in the context or the phrases that would make be believe that it should be taken metaphorically and such, so I take the passage to mean exactly what it says - a six day creation.

Do you have to believe that Jesus was God? Do you have to believe he was fully human? Do you have to believe he was fully God and fully human?

Once again, it follows simple logic: If Jesus was not God then He would be a sinner just like you and me and could not be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Thus, we are screwed.

What is your definition of a sinful lifestyle? Will God categorically deem certain lifestyles at death "sinful"?

As for what sinful lifestyles are, I would assert that they are those things in which you continually do the same kind of sin even though you know it is wrong, e.g. prostitution, drunkards, etc., see more below. Basically, living constantly in sin.

God has already condemned several lifestyles that will cause people not to inherit the kingdom of God, for example see 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (TNIV):

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.[Emphasis mine].

These are more examples of sinful lifestyles.

I've got a splitting head ache and I've already spent a long time on this, so I'm going to go. I hope that this answers your questions and perhaps clarifies my position.

 

[stdaggett]

So what about baptism? Is that not necessary for salvation?Thanks.St. Daggett