Eschatology for dummies :)

[worshipjunkie]

Would it be possible, for us newbies, to get a thread explaining these schools of thought and terminology? Preferably one without debate- just a plain boring explanation of things. I know what I believe, and I know some of the terms, but others are completely new to me. Thanks!

 

[HTacianas]

Would it be possible, for us newbies, to get a thread explaining these schools of thought and terminology? Preferably one without debate- just a plain boring explanation of things. I know what I believe, and I know some of the terms, but others are completely new to me. Thanks!

Do you mean the differences between preterism, futurism, and historicism?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Would it be possible, for us newbies, to get a thread explaining these schools of thought and terminology? Preferably one without debate- just a plain boring explanation of things. I know what I believe, and I know some of the terms, but others are completely new to me. Thanks!

Hello.
What do you believe, so I/we can get a better idea of how best to proceed.....
Just click on my little Devil avatar and look at threads I have started.........

.

 

[Dave-W]

Do you mean the differences between preterism, futurism, and historicism?

That would be one thrust.

There is also pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib; Millenialism and amillenialism, with several flavors of each variety.

It would be a daunting task.

 

[HTacianas]

That would be one thrust.

There is also pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib; Millenialism and amillenialism, with several flavors of each variety.

It would be a daunting task.

Yes, we have to get into categories, sub-categories, footnotes, bibliographies...

 

[Dave-W]

Yes, we have to get into categories, sub-categories, footnotes, bibliographies...

A re-write of the Encyclopedia, anyone??

 

[Jonaitis]

Yeah, that sounds good. I lean toward an amillennial, partial peterist view, but even if I am wrong, everything will pan out nicely.

I like the idea of an exposition certain passages that people take for their eschatological framework, because you will get many variations of, let's say, a futuristic, dispensationalism. I don't know, do what seems helpful.

 

[mkgal1]

From the 10,000 foot view, there're differences in how each person frames the entire Bible, though.....right?

What a person's understanding is of "God's plan" - maybe that's the best beginning?

IOW....do you believe He became incarnate to reconcile ALL to Himself (Colossians 1:20) - to take away the sin of the world (John 1:29) so all will be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)?

The different ways to look at "the last days" is new for me as well. I found it *completely* confusing and overwhelming in the past.

 

[worshipjunkie]

That would be one thrust.

There is also pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib; Millenialism and amillenialism, with several flavors of each variety.

It would be a daunting task.

All of the above; but the terms I am the most unfamiliar with are the preterism, etc.

I know I'm not a dispensationalist, and I'm pretty sure that I'm an amillennialist. Basically, I believe the Church is the new Israel, that we're in the 1000 year period right now, and Christ is going to come back soon to judge the living and the dead. (Very quick sum up). I'm not sure if I believe in a pre-trib rapture or not. I have studied very little in this area, and most of what I know is from when I studied it 14 or so years ago.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All of the above; but the terms I am the most unfamiliar with are the preterism, etc.

I know I'm not a dispensationalist, and I'm pretty sure that I'm an amillennialist. Basically, I believe the Church is the new Israel, that we're in the 1000 year period right now, and Christ is going to come back soon to judge the living and the dead. (Very quick sum up). I'm not sure if I believe in a pre-trib rapture or not. I have studied very little in this area, and most of what I know is from when I studied it 14 or so years ago.

There are some who hold to that view.
That the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem was the "parousia" of Jesus, making the the Gog-Magog war up next then the final judgement.
Have you got a view on what City is being symbolized in Revelation 18"

The type of Amillennialism that you believe in is a a more radical form preterism I think, in which case you might want to check this site out.
It includes studies on different eschatological views, not just preterism.

Just click on "study archives" and then the down arrow for the drop down menu .
Hope this helps.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/?s=amillennialism&id=m

Bill Wepfer: Which Way to the End? A Primer on Eschatology and the Message of Revelation (2018)
…Dispensationalist and sharp Amill critic, admits: Because amillennialism was adopted by the Reformers, it achieved a quality of orthodoxy to which its modern adherents can point with pride. They can rightly claim many worthy scholars in the succession from the Reformation to modern times such as Calvin, Luther, Melanchthon, and in modern times, Warfield, Vos, Kuyper, Machen and Berkhof. If one follows traditional Reformed theology in many other aspects, it is natural to accept its amillennialism. The weight of organized Christianity has largely been on the side of amillennialism. (Mill Kingdom 1959 p61; in Riddlebarger p32) Its [Amillenialism’s] most general… (Search hits: 26 in body, 0 in title, 0 in categories, 0 in tags, 0 in other taxonomies, 0 in comments. Score: 1489.9)

https://www.preteristarchive.com/millennial-reign-of-christ-study-archive/
Millennial Reign of Christ

Related

Amillennialism Study Archive
April 16, 2017

In "Historical Preterism"

 

[W2L]

Hello.
What do you believe, so I/we can get a better idea of how best to proceed.....
Just click on my little Devil avatar and look at threads I have started.........

.

lol

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

lol

Amen!!!!!
Wait a minute.......where the heck did the Devil go?

BRB

There we go.....

Heb 2:14
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same,
that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Rev 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread
.

 

[W2L]

Amen!!!!!
Wait a minute.......where the heck did the Devil go?

BRB

.

What do you mean? I still see him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What do you mean? I still see him.

Ok, good LOL............

We need a thread called "preterism for dummies"

.

 

[David Kent]

There are some who hold to that view.
That the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem was the "parousia" of Jesus, making the the Gog-Magog war up next then the final judgement.
Have you got a view on what City is being symbolized in Revelation 18"

The type of Amillennialism that you believe in is a form of more radical form preterism I think, in which case you might want to check this site out.
This site studies on different eschatological views, not just preterism.

Just click on "study archives" and then the down arrow for the drop down menu .
Hope this helps.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/?s=amillennialism&id=m

Bill Wepfer: Which Way to the End? A Primer on Eschatology and the Message of Revelation (2018)
…Dispensationalist and sharp Amill critic, admits: Because amillennialism was adopted by the Reformers, it achieved a quality of orthodoxy to which its modern adherents can point with pride. They can rightly claim many worthy scholars in the succession from the Reformation to modern times such as Calvin, Luther, Melanchthon, and in modern times, Warfield, Vos, Kuyper, Machen and Berkhof. If one follows traditional Reformed theology in many other aspects, it is natural to accept its amillennialism. The weight of organized Christianity has largely been on the side of amillennialism. (Mill Kingdom 1959 p61; in Riddlebarger p32) Its [Amillenialism’s] most general… (Search hits: 26 in body, 0 in title, 0 in categories, 0 in tags, 0 in other taxonomies, 0 in comments. Score: 1489.9)

https://www.preteristarchive.com/millennial-reign-of-christ-study-archive/

Millennial Reign of Christ

Related

Amillennialism Study Archive
April 16, 2017

In "Historical Preterism"


.

I have seen that Avatar used before.

I am not a preterist, But I agree mostly with Philip Mauro. They also have his early books on there when he was a dispenstionalist.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have seen that Avatar used before.

I am not a preterist, But I agree mostly with Philip Mauro. They also have his early books on there when he was a dispenstionalist.

I particular like it for their extensive articles, pictures and maps of the 7yr Jewish wars from 63ad thru 70ad.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

I found this picture on the internet and it goes with the drawings of the destruction of 70ad Jerusalem.

"PAROUSIA" IN THE "MT OF OLIVES" TEMPLE/JERUSALEM DISCOURSE

Matthew 24:
3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when? shall these be
and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'
Luke 21:20
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
then know that its desolation has come near.
Luke 13:34
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you!
35 “See! Your house is left to you desolate

Revelation 18:
14 And the armies who were in heaven, having been clothed in pure, white, fine linen were following Him upon white horses.
==========================================================
..............................................

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;

the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;
the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves --
-===================================================
Then this person made some great vids of that event

 

[David Kent]

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

Hegesippus - "James, the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church in conjunction with the apostles.. Because of his exceeding great justice he was called the Just.. Coming therefore in a body to James (the Scribes and Pharisees) said, 'We entreat thee, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ.. Do thou therefore persuade the multitude not to be led astray concerning Jesus. For the whole people, and all of us also, have confidence in thee.. And he answered with a loud voice,' Why do ye ask me concerning Jesus, the Son of Man ? He himself sitteth in heaven at the right hand of the great Power, and is about to come upon the clouds of heaven.' And when many were fully convinced and gloried in the testimony of James, and said, 'Hosanna to the Son of David,' these same Scribes and Pharisees said again to one another,' We have done badly in supplying such testimony to Jesus.. So they went up and threw down the just man, and said to each other, 'Let us stone James the Just.' And thus he suffered martyrdom. And they buried him on the spot, by the temple, and his monument still remains by the temple. He became a true witness, both to Jews and Greeks, that Jesus is the Christ. And immediately Vespasian besieged them."

That is not accurate. Vespasian was in Germany at the time and Nero called him back to take charge of the army after the Jews defeated Cestius.
The Christians departed the city when the armies of Cestius retreated from the city as the lord commanded them.

• Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

• Mark 13: 14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

• Luke 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.:
• 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
• 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

See also

• Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of : trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

[mkgal1]

All of the above; but the terms I am the most unfamiliar with are the preterism, etc.

I know I'm not a dispensationalist, and I'm pretty sure that I'm an amillennialist. Basically, I believe the Church is the new Israel, that we're in the 1000 year period right now, and Christ is going to come back soon to judge the living and the dead. (Very quick sum up). I'm not sure if I believe in a pre-trib rapture or not. I have studied very little in this area, and most of what I know is from when I studied it 14 or so years ago.

Preterism is a fairly new term to me as well. I first heard it here on CF - as an accusation against me - when I was merely tying together what I'd learned from Ray Vander Laan about the Jewish Revolts....the desolation of the second Temple (void of God's presence) and what Jesus is quoted as saying in the gospels.

A lot of people refer to there being a necessary "paradigm shift" in order to grab a hold of the whole framework of preterism. A LOT of presumptions and definitions need to be shed first. For instance - when most of us read "coming of the Lord" we often leap to a specific definition of a Second Coming (and all that goes along with that). But - from what I'm understanding about the preterist framework - "His coming" that's typically mentioned in the gospels is more about Him (Jesus) taking His seat on the throne - at the right hand of the Father - reigning. "Last Days" in preterism aren't just in Revelation and Daniel - it's what's pointed to all throughout the Bible.

This may be more than what you're asking for - but this PDF file is of a book written in 1896 that's an anchor book for preterism (it's free to download here): https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/parousia/Parousia_Russell.pdf

 

[mkgal1]

Another article that opened my eyes a great deal is this one, summarizing - from what I think is a historicist perspective - what the temple meant in ancient Jewish culture------>


Worship: The Temple and Wright’s Paul and the Faithfulness of God
To get deeper into the idea of the church as temple, we must first consider the idea of Jesus as temple. This is an idea taught by N. T. Wright in several places and expanded on by Nicholas Perrin in Jesus the Temple

.

Even more recently, Wright has explained the importance of the Temple to First Century Jews in detail in Paul and the Faithfulness of God —

The Temple in Jerusalem was the focus of the whole Jewish life and way of life. A good deal of Torah was about what to do in the Temple, and the practice of Torah in the Diaspora itself could be thought of in terms of gaining, at a distance, the blessings you would gain if you were actually there—the blessing, in other words, of the sacred presence itself, the Shekinah, the glory which supposedly dwelt in the Temple but would also dwell ‘where two or three study Torah’. …

The point of the Temple—this is where I want to develop considerably further what was said in the earlier volumes—is that it was where heaven and earth met. It was the place where Israel’s God, YHWH, had long ago promised to put his name, to make his glory present. The Temple, and before it the wilderness tabernacle, were thus heirs, within the biblical narrative, to moments like Jacob’s vision, the discovery that a particular spot on earth could intersect with, and be the gateway into, heaven itself. In the later period, even synagogues could sometimes be thought of as meeting places between heaven and earth; how much more the actual Temple. ~ Worship: The Temple and Wright’s Paul and the Faithfulness of God

 

[worshipjunkie]

Preterism is a fairly new term to me as well. I first heard it here on CF - as an accusation against me - when I was merely tying together what I'd learned from Ray Vander Laan about the Jewish Revolts....the desolation of the second Temple (void of God's presence) and what Jesus is quoted as saying in the gospels.

A lot of people refer to there being a necessary "paradigm shift" in order to grab a hold of the whole framework of preterism. A LOT of presumptions and definitions need to be shed first. For instance - when most of us read "coming of the Lord" we often leap to a specific definition of a Second Coming (and all that goes along with that). But - from what I'm understanding about the preterist framework - "His coming" that's typically mentioned in the gospels is more about Him (Jesus) taking His seat on the throne - at the right hand of the Father - reigning. "Last Days" in preterism aren't just in Revelation and Daniel - it's what's pointed to all throughout the Bible.

This may be more than what you're asking for - but this PDF file is of a book written in 1896 that's an anchor book for preterism (it's free to download here): https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/parousia/Parousia_Russell.pdf

Thank you for all the information! So, putting together what I'm hearing, I guess I'm a partial preterist? I don't believe all the prophecies were referring to AD 70 but I certainly believe some of them were. From what I understand of the Reformed position, for example, it's preterist? Just trying to get a handle on what these names mean.