Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

Dave L said:

Jesus said the kingdom is spiritual, not of this world. And it comes without observation.

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The unbelieving Jews asked Him then about a literal physical kingdom for THIS PRESENT WORLD, not for the world to come. Sadly, you don't know the difference, which makes me wonder about the agenda you are on.

Dave L said:

The kingdom is spiritual and one must be born again to see and enter it. The wicked cannot do this.

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You are denying the entire last third of the book of Ezekiel.

Dave L said:

Not true. You read scripture just as the Pharisees did and you look for the same kingdom they did.

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I believe all the Bible, not just the parts I like.

I used to believe in the rapture/Pre-Trib rapture up until a couple years ago. But having studied scriptures through the original greek, interlinear Heb/Greek bible, Strongs concordance, Strongs dictionary and McClintock and Strongs CYCLOPӔDIA of BIBLICAL, THEOLOGICAL, AND ECCLESIASTICAL
LITERATURE among many more.

Rapture came about from John Darby, the founder of the "Darbyites" (sp?). However, I read the book of revelation, chapter 10, verse 7 shows the end of time.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+10:5-7&version=KJV

Time should be no more... no thousand year reign. This is why I study from the original greek. The Interlinear bible does just that. I found that the bible says, "a thousand years is a day, and a day is a thousand years..". Also, I found the phrase in Rev about the seal put on the dragon, is "the thousand years" the greek word is Dischilioi- Strongs 1367. dischilioi dis-khil'-ee-oy from 1364 and 5507; two thousand:--two thousand. So two thousand years, is the correct reading. dischilioi is derived from 5505. chilias khil-ee-as' from 5507; one thousand ("chiliad"):--thousand. They are not the same.

John Darby brought the rapture doctrine to the US from the UK in 1830 about. But baptists back about 150 years ago believed in predestination and didn't believe in a rapture doctrine. We don't have any accurate calendars so we can't say with any degree of accuracy but we do know AD33-AD35 was when Christ was crucified. But we have to be at about the 2,000 year mark.

that's what I believe.

Biblewriter said:

No, I have already posted hard proof that the word "hour" is often used in scripture for a time period of undefined length. So this scripture says that these events will take place within an undefined time period. But Revelation 20 :5 explicitly says that there is a thousand years between them.

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So by that you're going to try and change... the timing of Christ's 2nd coming and the resurrection of the just???

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Just that in bold red alone shows your theory on translation of "the hour" is defunct. You cannot change the time of the resurrection of life for the saints. It will occur on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming like I said before. You have made a gross error in interpretation.

Biblewriter said:

No, you have not shown this. You have alleged it. But that is a far different matter from showing it. And you cannot show it, for this concept is directly contrary to many scriptures.

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Contrary to your understanding maybe, but not contrary to God's Word. Again, I cannot help that some are not able to understand the spiritually dead idea our Lord Jesus and His Apostles taught in God's Word. That's what those "dead" of Rev.20:5 is about, as those are the nations of unsaved that exist during that 1,000 years of Rev.20. Only those will be able to be tempted by Satan when he is loosed at the end of the period.

Dave L said:

The wicked dead are not in the Kingdom, they are in hell.

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I guess you like to forget about this Scripture too:

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Dave L said:

Again we have lots of hat and no cattle. Revelation 20 will not support your claims.

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I see no Scripture support of what you say.

Davy said:

So by that you're going to try and change... the timing of Christ's 2nd coming and the resurrection of the just???

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Just that in bold red alone shows your theory on translation of "the hour" is defunct. You cannot change the time of the resurrection of life for the saints. It will occur on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming like I said before. You have made a gross error in interpretation.

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I am insisting that all the scriptural statements about this coming are correct. You are using a possible, but not necessary, interpretation of some of them as an excuse to deny others of them.

Biblewriter said:

The scriptural support for this is all over the Bible. Try Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah for starters.

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Try the New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator and Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1,2); for enders.

Dave L said:

But you have the same understanding of the kingdom the Pharisees had.

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You are using your interpretation of the meanings of a relatively small number of scriptures as an excuse to deny the explicit statements of a far greater number of scriptures. This does not work.

Dave L said:

Nor is it 1000 years long wracked with sin and death (as your millennium is).

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PROVE with scripture when YOU say the 1000 years begins and ends and why it begins and ends

Biblewriter said:

I am insisting that all the scriptural statements about this coming are correct. You are using a possible, but not necessary, interpretation of some of them as an excuse to deny others of them.

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I'm not the one denying, you are brother. Trying to change what that 'hour' represents when it is hard connected to the day of Jesus' coming with the resurrection of the just simply cannot be missed from that John 5:28-29. To overlook that is gross error. And that's what you did, all because no doubt you want to keep your comfy tradition about the "dead" of Rev.20. It's time to get rid of the old milk bottle and get a fresh wine skin so the full wine of God's Word can be opened up to you.

Christambassador1968 said:

Rapture came about from John Darby, the founder of the "Darbyites" (sp?)..

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That is entirely FALSE , Darby has nothing to do with writing scripture , Darby just spoke about scripture that is in the bible , but like yourself too many people listen to mens teaching and not actually study thy Bible for themselves , so they get led astray

Biblewriter said:

You are using your interpretation of the meanings of a relatively small number of scriptures as an excuse to deny the explicit statements of a far greater number of scriptures. This does not work.

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In God's New Will and Testament, all promises are fulfilled in Christ and those who are in Christ.

The OT promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

And His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...make us who are in Christ joint heirs with Him.

But notice:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile, who is not in Christ.

jgr said:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

.

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Where are the words

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

in scripture , and not just your made up interpretation ?

Dave L said:

You are misinterpreting the entire last third of Ezekiel + much more. Jesus put an end to the animal sacrifices Ezekiel's Temple is based on.

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Jesus with his crucifixion blotted out the old ordinances(rituals). So now the LORD has written is law on the fleshy tables of our hearts as opposed to the tablets of stone in the ark of the covenant. The temple of the OT is our bodies and the church of the NT.

I had to learn about ancient jewish culture of the day. The way a covenant/contract/agreement is ended, is by having the testator(Christ), the testatee(the church), come together with witnesses and they agree to end the contractual agreement. They do this by driving a nail through the paper into a cross, thereby voiding the old contract which Christ did with his death. The last supper (the last passover), Christ gave the new testament of his blood. But it cannot go into effect UNTIL the death of the testator. So Christ is crucified, thereby doing away with the old and now the church is his bride in the new covenant. the end of days started in Acts II and is currently in action as I write this until rev 10:7.

Also, the items in the OT temple represent or are a shadow of the NT. The temple is our bodies. the showbread, the bread being the body, the body being the church. Rev 1:20 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1:20&version=KJV is the glossary of ALL of revelation. the candlestick is the is seven churches, which we come from. So the menorah in the OT temple represents the church. the veil in the temple represents christs body and his death made it now possible for the church to approach GOD our father, now being in the "light" of his truth. But I absolutely love the word of GOD. His word is meat indeed (Nomos, legal food for animals, we being sheep).