Escape from a Death Cult:

[Dave L]

Escape from a Death Cult: [edited 3/4/2019]

Once, while young in the faith, I fell into what would become one of the deadliest Word of Faith cults in North America, the Glory Barn Faith Assembly of northern Indiana. God providentially delivered me by what most would call a twist of fate.

I ran into this group through another Pentecostal group. Later, after a job transfer into their region, I began fellowship with them. Nothing stood out as unusual. They had the typical adrenalin driven praise and worship most Pentecostal churches have. But I left the region after a year when my job ended. After a couple of years my wife and I returned to the region and they had grown from around 100 to perhaps a 1000.

During this time, we heard about a few people dying of treatable reasons. But they blamed this on lack of faith. Or their faith must not have been genuine. But it wasn’t too long before God led us out in a most unusual way.

One night they presented the Limited Atonement doctrine so they could teach against it. This was the first I ever heard of Limited Atonement. But the doctrine, even though presented in the most disagreeable way, spoke to me. And after hearing the universal atonement doctrine in contrast, it dawned on me that we had come to an impasse.

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then faith and healing didn’t work the way they said it did. And it would explain why some died from commonly treatable ailments. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

Maybe a year passed when we began hearing about their unusually high infant mortality rates. And others dying from easily treated illnesses. Over one hundred preventable deaths happened over a ten year period reaching into the late eighties, the main teacher being one of them.

When a person believes in universal atonement, the belief that Christ died for every person, they also must believe his death did not save anyone, since most perish. To explain this, they turn the gospel into law. And then offer salvation only to those who choose to meet the conditions. When the gospel instead only announces whosoever believes has eternal life. But with the legalistic gospel, the conditions range from partaking of Sacraments to deciding for Christ. In this case the condition was faith.

The Glory Barn people also believed the same conditions you met for salvation, would also merit healing. But what led them to their deaths was thinking God does not use doctors since it’s not in the bible. And the teaching that whatever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). So as soon as they claimed healing and set their minds to believe, it bound their consciences. And it would be sinning to alter course and go to a doctor.

But this was not biblical faith. It was concentrating on an ideal. Mental Focus they mislabeled faith. A mental fixation they believed God would honor any time they found “biblical support” and conjured it up. But biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is something God gives to us, telling us he saved us or healed us. And when not present, it means God is not moving us in that direction. When present, we can know it is the direction God is moving us in. It's all about the witness of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We pray and the Holy Spirit aligns us through faith with the time and place and means of God’s provision.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Great Testimony for faith in Christ.
A lot of people have faith in a death culture, not just a small death cult.
Being saved, set free from the death culture (society), is relatively rare, few escape.

 

[Hank77]

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then everything they said about faith and healing is false. And it would explain why some died of treatable conditions. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

How does Limited Atonement have anything to do with faith healing?
There are plenty of people who believe in Limited Atonement/LA who die, even from treatable diseases, because they can't afford the medical care they need.
There are also plenty of people who do not believe in LA who die from treatable diseases for the same reason.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Escape from a Death Cult:
Once, while young in the faith, I fell into what would become one of the deadliest Word of Faith cults in North America, the Glory Barn Faith Assembly of northern Indiana.
God providentially delivered me by what most would call a twist of fate.

At first I ran into this group through another Pentecostal group. Later, after a job transfer into their area, I began fellowshipping with them. Nothing stood out as unusual. They had the typical adrenalin driven praise and worship most Pentecostal churches have. But I left the area after a year when my job ended. After a couple of years my wife and I returned to the area and they had grown from around 100 to perhaps a 1000.

During this time, we heard about a few people dying of treatable reasons. But they blamed this on lack of faith. Or their faith must not have been genuine. But it wasn’t too long when God led us away from this danger in a most unusual way.

One night they presented the Limited Atonement doctrine so they could teach against it. They were Amyraldian or 4 point Calvinists. This was the first I ever heard of Limited Atonement. But the doctrine, even though presented in the most disagreeable way, spoke to me. And after hearing the universal atonement theory in contrast, it dawned on me that we had come to a fork in the road.

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then everything they said about faith and healing is false. And it would explain why some died of treatable conditions. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

Maybe a year passed when we began hearing about their unusually high infant mortality rate. And others dying of easily treated illnesses. Over one hundred preventable deaths happened over a ten year period reaching into the late eighties, the main teacher being one of them. The culprit was the missing L in TULIP for those who know of the 5 points of Calvinism.

My wife rejected the idea of not having a doctor perform the delivery. And she and our daughter, born breech, would no doubt be among the casualties otherwise. But faith in Christ, instead of faith in our faith led us to a doctor for the Amish who had plenty of experience in breech cases.

Praise JESUS that He rescued you from that cult.
I have never heard of it, so I did a little research on it:

https://www.google.com/search?sourc.......0...1.2.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.wjZIF0i6npo

http://yesteryear.clunette.com/faithassembly1.html
*snip*

Pulpit Mastery or Mind Control?
His grip on and influence over the minds of those who attend Faith Assembly is very strong and there are several reasons for this.

First, he has a mastery of the Scriptures which includes facility in the original languages. His presentations are characterized by careful organization and profuse Scripture quotation. Those wanting to know the Scriptures better find his teaching challenging and interesting.

Second, there is the constant claim to supernatural visions and special revelations. Since these are said to have come form God, no one in the congregation is about to challenge them, for to do so is to question God Himself.

Third, his is a ministry frequently supported by fear. Members are often reminded of the curses and punishments that follow a falling away from the faith as taught at the assembly. Illustrations of this fact are regularly paraded before the congregation, not only by Freeman, but by other ministers in the assembly.

The use of this technique came home with full force when I was leaving his house and he called my attention to the fact that virtually all the reporters who had recently spoke critically of his ministry had since suffered illness, injury or death. I assumed that bit of information was for my benefit.

Finally, the seclusion and discipline of his Faith Assembly ministry which forbids reading newspapers, watching television and having fellowship with members of other churches, virtually guarantees an uncritical commitment to his ideas. (Members utilize only materials (tapes and books) produced by him.)

Hobart Freeman: a Charles Manson or Jim Jones?

I doubt it. He has many positive accomplishments to his credit and most of his theology falls within the framework of evangelical through generally and charismatic ideas specifically. This area will be examined in a later article.

His insistence on absolute obedience to all his ideas and the reinforcement of those ideas by fear and seclusion is dangerous and has been tragic for many young families.

Hobart Freeman is a scholar, capable author, effective teacher and friend to many who have had significant needs. On the other hand, his has been a ministry of turmoil, suspicion, fear and despair to others.

According to some, he is a religious tyrant and cultist, but to others, a man of God who exhibits great faith and meet the critical spiritual, physical and emotional needs of thousands. Clearly, his ministry presents a paradox...................

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How does Limited Atonement have anything to do with faith healing?
There are plenty of people who believe in Limited Atonement/LA who die, even from treatable diseases, because they can't afford the medical care they need.
There are also plenty of people who do not believe in LA who die from treatable diseases for the same reason.

In the usa it is more because they are lied to, than that they cannot afford to be healed/ prevent disease.

Remember, in Galatians Yahweh's Word Says all society is pernicious (HOW GREAT A SALVATION WE RECEIVE WHEN WE ARE SAVED FROM pernicious society, as written). pernicious = death-dealing.

This includes the entire sickness industry devoted to , guess what!? , sickness!

Remaining well, getting well, is not nearly as expensive as getting sick and staying sick is.

 

[Hank77]

In the usa it is more because they are lied to, than that they cannot afford to be healed/ prevent disease.

They were lied to?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They were lied to?

Look up the AMA and FDA lists of the highest cause(s) of death in the USA. (maybe around the world also)...
Close to number one, if not number one, is 'properly'(sorry- more accurately 'legally') prescribed medicine. It has been growing higher on the list ever since around 1940.

 

[Dave L]

How does Limited Atonement have anything to do with faith healing?
There are plenty of people who believe in Limited Atonement/LA who die, even from treatable diseases, because they can't afford the medical care they need.
There are also plenty of people who do not believe in LA who die from treatable diseases for the same reason.

The difference is; with universal atonement people have faith in their faith. They think it is the condition they meet in the flesh in order to be saved or healed. But with limited atonement, faith is something God gives to us (a fruit of the Holy Spirit) telling us Christ died for us, or else we could not believe.

 

[Hank77]

The difference is; with universal atonement people have faith in their faith. They think it is the condition they meet in the flesh in order to be saved or healed. But with limited atonement, faith is something God gives to us (a fruit of the Holy Spirit) telling us Christ died for us, or else we could not believe.

Thank you for responding, God Bless.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Escape from a Death Cult:

Once, while young in the faith, I fell into what would become one of the deadliest Word of Faith cults in North America, the Glory Barn Faith Assembly of northern Indiana. God providentially delivered me by what most would call a twist of fate.

At first I ran into this group through another Pentecostal group. Later, after a job transfer into their area, I began fellowshipping with them. Nothing stood out as unusual. They had the typical adrenalin driven praise and worship most Pentecostal churches have. But I left the area after a year when my job ended. After a couple of years my wife and I returned to the area and they had grown from around 100 to perhaps a 1000.

During this time, we heard about a few people dying of treatable reasons. But they blamed this on lack of faith. Or their faith must not have been genuine. But it wasn’t too long when God led us away from this danger in a most unusual way.

One night they presented the Limited Atonement doctrine so they could teach against it. They were Amyraldian or 4 point Calvinists. This was the first I ever heard of Limited Atonement. But the doctrine, even though presented in the most disagreeable way, spoke to me. And after hearing the universal atonement theory in contrast, it dawned on me that we had come to a fork in the road.

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then everything they said about faith and healing is false. And it would explain why some died of treatable conditions. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

Maybe a year passed when we began hearing about their unusually high infant mortality rate. And others dying of easily treated illnesses. Over one hundred preventable deaths happened over a ten year period reaching into the late eighties, the main teacher being one of them. The culprit was the missing L in TULIP for those who know of the 5 points of Calvinism.

My wife rejected the idea of not having a doctor perform the delivery. And she and our daughter, born breech, would no doubt be among the casualties otherwise. But faith in Christ, instead of faith in our faith led us to a doctor for the Amish who had plenty of experience in breech cases.

I'm surprised they are Calvinistic at all. L isn't the only one I don't claim.

 

[Dave L]

I'm surprised they are Calvinistic at all. L isn't the only one I don't claim.

Here's how it works. If Christ died for all and all are not saved, his death didn't save anyone. It only made it possible for people to save themselves. Based on this they saw faith as a condition people must meet for salvation. They applied this same principle to healing. If you meet the condition of faith, God will heal you. Just as he saves people who meet the condition of faith. But this killed over 100 people who died from easily treatable conditions. And I think we will see the same results in the matter of salvation too where people trust in themselves meeting the conditions instead of trusting in Christ directly.

 

[mark kennedy]

Escape from a Death Cult:

Once, while young in the faith, I fell into what would become one of the deadliest Word of Faith cults in North America, the Glory Barn Faith Assembly of northern Indiana. God providentially delivered me by what most would call a twist of fate.

At first I ran into this group through another Pentecostal group. Later, after a job transfer into their area, I began fellowshipping with them. Nothing stood out as unusual. They had the typical adrenalin driven praise and worship most Pentecostal churches have. But I left the area after a year when my job ended. After a couple of years my wife and I returned to the area and they had grown from around 100 to perhaps a 1000.

During this time, we heard about a few people dying of treatable reasons. But they blamed this on lack of faith. Or their faith must not have been genuine. But it wasn’t too long when God led us away from this danger in a most unusual way.

One night they presented the Limited Atonement doctrine so they could teach against it. They were Amyraldian or 4 point Calvinists. This was the first I ever heard of Limited Atonement. But the doctrine, even though presented in the most disagreeable way, spoke to me. And after hearing the universal atonement theory in contrast, it dawned on me that we had come to a fork in the road.

I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then everything they said about faith and healing is false. And it would explain why some died of treatable conditions. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

Maybe a year passed when we began hearing about their unusually high infant mortality rate. And others dying of easily treated illnesses. Over one hundred preventable deaths happened over a ten year period reaching into the late eighties, the main teacher being one of them. The culprit was the missing L in TULIP for those who know of the 5 points of Calvinism.

My wife rejected the idea of not having a doctor perform the delivery. And she and our daughter, born breech, would no doubt be among the casualties otherwise. But faith in Christ, instead of faith in our faith led us to a doctor for the Amish who had plenty of experience in breech cases.

It sounds like you got out just in time, glad to hear your getting a little doctrinal clarity. There are two kinds of faith, simple child like faith in the risen Savior and there is a gift of the Holy Spirit call the gift of faith. There are some who have a special gift of grace for believing God will do great things. What they were peddling wasn't faith at all, it's more like a game of chocken, they are basically daring God not to perform a miracle. We know God does great things and responds to the prayer of faith. That doesn't alleviate of responsibility for due diligence.

Glad to hear you got away from them, they sound pretty looney.

 

[brinny]

Praise God that you and your family escaped, by the grace of God. Thank you for sharing your testimony.

 

[1stcenturylady]

If Christ died for all and all are not saved, his death didn't save anyone.

Is that what this cult believed? Because I don't. Or is this what Calvinists believe and the cult didn't. I'm not sure who believes what.

It only made it possible for people to save themselves.

If believing which leads to obeying which leads to salvation is our responsibility then I DO believe that. Do Calvinists? I don't think they do, but I'm not Calvinist.

They applied this same principle to healing. If you meet the condition of faith, God will heal you. Just as he saves people who meet the condition of faith.

Since our healing happened at the cross, just like salvation it is a done deal. However, when it comes to healing, or any sign or wonder, we must know our own limitations when it comes to faith. Faith to see something in the future such as our salvation is easier than faith to see something right now. Faith is the key to unlocking the door, but it is not our faith, it is supernatural faith, which is a gift of God 1 Corinthians 12:9. And how do we get that supernatural faith? The timing is up to God. It is when He speaks to your heart and tells you. That hearing is also dependent on our own ability to hear. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the RHEMA of God. Hearing God's voice depends on the extent of our abiding in Christ. This group may not have known the difference. Look at James 5. The person sick knew their own limitations, so asked for the elders to pray for them, instead of them walking in health by praying for themselves. Is that lack of faith, sin? Evidently, but a trespass which is forgiven. James 5:15. Not doing anything is presumption, a willful sin. Doctors are from God also.

And I think we will see the same results in the matter of salvation too where people trust in themselves meeting the conditions instead of trusting in Christ directly.

Christ's yoke is easy and his burden is light. But we must still be willing to wear it. Some take the extreme Calvinist view that even repentance is a work, and also obedience. If these weren't important then Universalism would be true. It's not, any more than the other extreme is true - Calvinism.

We were made in the image and likeness of God. That statement has a deeper meaning. God is ultimately sovereign; therefore, we, ourselves, enjoy sovereignty over our own destiny. God doesn't make someone go to heaven or to hell. He has provided the answer. God leaves the acceptance or rejection up to us.

 

[Dave L]

Is that what this cult believed? Because I don't. Or is this what Calvinists believe and the cult didn't. I'm not sure who believes what.



If believing which leads to obeying which leads to salvation is our responsibility then I DO believe that. Do Calvinists? I don't think they do, but I'm not Calvinist.



Since our healing happened at the cross, just like salvation it is a done deal. However, when it comes to healing, or any sign or wonder, we must know our own limitations when it comes to faith. Faith to see something in the future such as our salvation is easier than faith to see something right now. Faith is the key to unlocking the door, but it is not our faith, it is supernatural faith, which is a gift of God 1 Corinthians 12:9. And how do we get that supernatural faith? The timing is up to God. It is when He speaks to your heart and tells you. That hearing is also dependent on our own ability to hear. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the RHEMA of God. Hearing God's voice depends on the extent of our abiding in Christ. This group may not have known the difference. Look at James 5. The person sick knew their own limitations, so asked for the elders to pray for them, instead of them walking in health by praying for themselves. Is that lack of faith, sin? Evidently, but a trespass which is forgiven. James 5:15. Not doing anything is presumption, a willful sin. Doctors are from God also.


Christ's yoke is easy and his burden is light. But we must still be willing to wear it. Some take the extreme Calvinist view that even repentance is a work, and also obedience. If these weren't important then Universalism would be true. It's not, any more than the other extreme is true - Calvinism.

We were made in the image and likeness of God. That statement has a deeper meaning. God is ultimately sovereign; therefore, we, ourselves, enjoy sovereignty over our own destiny. God doesn't make someone go to heaven or to hell. He has provided the answer. God leaves the acceptance or rejection up to us.

What it boils down to, if Jesus' death paid for sins, then all he died for will be saved. Since we know all will not be saved, he must have died only for those who are actually saved. He says whosoever believes has eternal life. So it is these he died for. He did not die for those who do not believe. The way you can know if he died for you is whether or not you believe. Had he not died for you, you could not believe and you would walk the other way.

 

[1stcenturylady]

What it boils down to, if Jesus' death paid for sins, then all he died for will be saved. Since we know all will not be saved, he must have died only for those who are actually saved. He says whosoever believes has eternal life. So it is these he died for. He did not die for those who do not believe. The way you can know if he died for you is whether or not you believe. Had he not died for you, you could not believe and you would walk the other way.

Actually, I have to go by what it says - "whosoever will." John 3:16, and "sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 That is not just the sins of a Christian as Calvinists believe. These two verses combined in context shows that it is for the whole world, but we must believe to apply the offer. Not one or the other as extremists like Universalists on one side, and Calvinists on the other teach. No, the truth is in the combination. "All scripture."

2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

That is by our human will. If we believe that just because we believe we are justified and sanctified, that we have no free will and can't lose our salvation, we are wrong. Matthew 21:21-23. Granted, Jesus has given us His own powerful Spirit to prevent us from sinning, by making us dead to sin, which to me means he killed the whole sin nature, and given us a new nature. But our own sovereignty can even override our new nature that doesn't desire to sin. If we don't guard our mind and we allow yourselves to be enticed by temptations and then allow them to grow into willful sin, and practice them long enough it produces death, then we've given up our own salvation and trampled on the blood of Jesus and the Spirit of Grace, for we have stopped abiding in the vine. James 1:14-15; Hebrews 10-26-39; John 15. If we die in that condition, we can choose to go back to perdition. And NOT just a loss of rewards as Calvinism twists Galatians 5:21b "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" into saying.

 

[Dave L]

Actually, I have to go by what it says - "whosoever will." John 3:16, and "sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 That is not just the sins of a Christian as Calvinists believe. These two verses combined in context shows that it is for the whole world, but we must believe to apply the offer. Not one or the other as extremists like Universalists on one side, and Calvinists on the other teach. No, the truth is in the combination. "All scripture."

2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

That is by our human will. If we believe that just because we believe we are justified and sanctified, that we have no free will and can't lose our salvation, we are wrong. Matthew 21:21-23. Granted, Jesus has given us His own powerful Spirit to prevent us from sinning, by making us dead to sin, which to me means he killed the whole sin nature, and given us a new nature. But our own sovereignty can even override our new nature that doesn't desire to sin. If we don't guard our mind and we allow yourselves to be enticed by temptations and then allow them to grow into willful sin, and practice them long enough it produces death, then we've given up our own salvation and trampled on the blood of Jesus and the Spirit of Grace, for we have stopped abiding in the vine. James 1:14-15; Hebrews 10-26-39; John 15. If we die in that condition, we can choose to go back to perdition. And NOT just a loss of rewards as Calvinism twists Galatians 5:21b "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" into saying.

Keep in mind salvation was of the Jews until the New Covenant fulfilled the promise to Abraham. And at that point salvation was for the whole world not Jews only.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Keep in mind salvation was of the Jews until the New Covenant fulfilled the promise to Abraham. And at that point salvation was for the whole world not Jews only.

Doesn't matter. Gentiles are grafted into the Jews. They aren't separate.

 

[Dave L]

Doesn't matter. Gentiles are grafted into the Jews. They aren't separate.

I agree. But world = gentile believers grafted into Israel. Not each person ever born which obviously includes all who never heard of Christ.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I agree. But world = gentile believers grafted into Israel. Not each person ever born which obviously includes all who never heard of Christ.

Obviously

You seem to know about Calvinists. What does the T stand for in regards to the status of a Christian? Certainly not total depravity as non-believers.