Esau and Jacob

[Godislove94]

Every time I read the story in Genesis, I always struggle with this question: if Esau was the one who was supposed to rightfully receive Isaac' s blessing and Jacob essentially tricked him and stole from Esau, why did God allow this, and why did he not punish Jacob? This passage is hard to understand.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

Every time I read the story in Genesis, I always struggle with this question: if Esau was the one who was supposed to rightfully receive Isaac' s blessing and Jacob essentially tricked him and stole from Esau, why did God allow this, and why did he not punish Jacob? This passage is hard to understand.

Esau was NOT the one who was supposed to receive the blessing. Didn't Esau forsake his birthright first? But that's not the kicker. Here it is;

Gen 25
23 And the LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided; the one shall be stronger than the other, the older shall serve the younger."
​

Rebekah was told by the LORD himself that Esau would serve Jacob, so she was only doing what G-d had told her would be. Jacob was not only doing what Rebekah commanded, she was commanding it be done because she was told by G-d that it was to be this way.

 

[Bobinator]

Jacob desperately wanted God’s blessings. Esau took it lightly and didn’t put much value in it. I think that’s justification enough.

Jacob was gentle and humble. Esau was a wild man who was very earthly. Humility and a love for God is what get us in the Kingdom, not serving the flesh. God is teaching us a valuable lesson here.

 

[St_Worm2]

Romans 9 also teaches us quite a bit about God's sovereignty. For instance:

Though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that the purpose of God according to His choice (election) would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, "The older will serve the younger." Just as it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." ​

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Romans 9:11-16​

 

[Godislove94]

Oh, okay, I get it now! Basically like telling a child "if you can't take care of your toys, I'll give them to someone else who will,"? I forgot about Esau trading it for a temporary satisfaction. Thanks all.

 

[Bobinator]

Keep in mind that there’s no spiritual law that mandates the first born is entitled to a blessing or inheritance. That custom is based on seniority. God’s kingdom is not based on this ideal.

In addition, no one on earth is entitled to anything, except what God grants him/her. No one else on the planet was eligible to receive Isaac’s inheritance, except Esau and Jacob. God was establishing his covenant, and he chose the best candidate. Joseph was the 11th, and David was the youngest in their families, and they got it all.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

Keep in mind that there’s no spiritual law that mandates the first born is entitled to a blessing or inheritance. That custom is based on seniority. God’s kingdom is not based on this ideal.

In addition, no one on earth is entitled to anything, except what God grants him/her. No one else on the planet was eligible to receive Isaac’s inheritance, except Esau and Jacob. God was establishing his covenant, and he chose the best candidate. Joseph was the 11th, and David was the youngest in their families, and they got it all.

Actually, if you look, very rarely if at all does the blessing go to the first born. The older usually serves the younger.

Mark 9:35 ESV

And he sat down and called the twelve. And he said to them, "If anyone would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all."
​

The first(older) is the servant of all the rest (younger). Messiah is the servant of G-d, the first born of all creation, who ministers the will of G-d upon all His creation.

Philippians 2
6He was in the form of God, .... he emptied himself, in that he took the form of a slave by becoming like human beings are. And when he appeared as a human being, 8 he humbled himself still more by becoming obedient even to death
​

 

[Mark51]

Jacob did not do anything wrong because it was prophesied that “…the older would serve the younger.” (Genesis 25:23) The birthright, apparently was not appreciated by Esau. This was even more apparent when he did not repent but, contrarily, rebelled.
-Exodus 28:6-9. Compare Romans 9:13.

This attitude was also likened to the natural Jews. They, as a nation, showed the same attitude as Esau; and, were replaced by spiritual Israel.-Romans 9:6-16, 24.

 

[dysert]

Jacob did not do anything wrong because it was prophesied that “…the older would serve the younger.” (Genesis 25:23) The birthright, apparently was not appreciated by Esau. This was even more apparent when he did not repent but, contrarily, rebelled.
-Exodus 28:6-9. Compare Romans 9:13.

This attitude was also likened to the natural Jews. They, as a nation, showed the same attitude as Esau; and, were replaced by spiritual Israel.-Romans 9:6-16, 24.

I think it's a stretch to say that Jacob did not do anything wrong. Just because it was prophesied that the older would serve the younger doesn't mean that the way Jacob went about it was right. After all, Antichrist will kill lots of people per prophecy, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

Read two-thirds of the chapter where Esau loses his birthright and blessing. Seems Esau thought the two were separate as Genesis 27:36 says Jacob had taken his birthright and now his blessing. I agree it's a difficult chapter to understand. Though it fulfills prophecy and does God's will, I struggle with how Rebekah and Jacob went about it.

Also y'all think Genesis 25:23 and Genesis 3:14-15 are connected? How I'm making sense of it is lukewarmness being unprepared, and expecting something just because while not being thankful. It's warning those who're promised an inheritance according to the flesh or tradition, that it's not how God chooses among his children and if not careful even those who had the right to inheritance will lose it (just like Adam to Satan).

 

[ewq1938]

I think it's a stretch to say that Jacob did not do anything wrong. Just because it was prophesied that the older would serve the younger doesn't mean that the way Jacob went about it was right. After all, Antichrist will kill lots of people per prophecy, but that doesn't make it right.

He didn't do anything wrong. God loved him, and foretold he would be served by Esau and God hated Esau....he was a bad person.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

He didn't do anything wrong. God loved him, and foretold he would be served by Esau and God hated Esau....he was a bad person.

Deceit isn't wrong?

 

[ewq1938]

Deceit isn't wrong?

Not when God ordains it.

Jos 2:1 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.

And God approves of the use of secretive spying.

Let's further look at the definitions:

spy

H7270
???
ra^gal
raw-gal'
A primitive root; to walk along; but only in specific applications, to reconnoitre, to be a tale bearer (that is, slander); also (as denominative from H7272) to lead about: - backbite, search, slander, (e-) spy (out), teach to go, view.

H7270
???
ra^gal
BDB Definition:
1) to go on foot, spy out, foot it, go about, walk along, move the feet
1a) (Qal) to be a tale-bearer, slander, go about
1b) (Piel)
1b1) to slander
1b2) to go about as explorer, spy
1c) (Tiphel) to teach to walk
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2113

Jos 2:3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.
Jos 2:4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:
Jos 2:5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.


Rahab lies to the men! Does God shun her or punish her for sinning? No, she has protected spies that ultimately are working for God for the benefit of Israel and she and her family are rewarded by being allowed to survive. God approves of her lying because it helped his spies survive and do their job.


In Numbers 13 Moses does much the same as Joshua, sending in spies to a land to scout out how strong they are because Moses wanted to invade.

1Sa 21:13 And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.

Here another form of non-verbal lying is being used by David to feign or pretend that he is crazy when he in fact is not. It's not true that he was "mad" but it served a good and righteous purpose because it saved his life and assured all that God had planned for him would come to pass.

 

[Resha Caner]

Rahab lies to the men! Does God shun her or punish her for sinning? No ...

That's horrible reasoning. Taking God's silence as assent can be used to justify all kinds of atrocities.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

Not when God ordains it.

Jos 2:1 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.

And God approves of the use of secretive spying.

Let's further look at the definitions:

spy

H7270
???
ra^gal
raw-gal'
A primitive root; to walk along; but only in specific applications, to reconnoitre, to be a tale bearer (that is, slander); also (as denominative from H7272) to lead about: - backbite, search, slander, (e-) spy (out), teach to go, view.

H7270
???
ra^gal
BDB Definition:
1) to go on foot, spy out, foot it, go about, walk along, move the feet
1a) (Qal) to be a tale-bearer, slander, go about
1b) (Piel)
1b1) to slander
1b2) to go about as explorer, spy
1c) (Tiphel) to teach to walk
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2113

Jos 2:3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.
Jos 2:4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:
Jos 2:5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.


Rahab lies to the men! Does God shun her or punish her for sinning? No, she has protected spies that ultimately are working for God for the benefit of Israel and she and her family are rewarded by being allowed to survive. God approves of her lying because it helped his spies survive and do their job.


In Numbers 13 Moses does much the same as Joshua, sending in spies to a land to scout out how strong they are because Moses wanted to invade.

1Sa 21:13 And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.

Here another form of non-verbal lying is being used by David to feign or pretend that he is crazy when he in fact is not. It's not true that he was "mad" but it served a good and righteous purpose because it saved his life and assured all that God had planned for him would come to pass.

I can't accept God's lack of judgement at the time as an excuse for wrongs. Originally he didn't command us not to murder, I remember Cain murdered Abel and wasn't killed for it. It was after during his covenant with Noah that life was required for taking another's life. It seems God has mercy waiting before he judges else we'd be condemned.

He rather we learn our lessons as he guides us to the truth. This in my opinion is what he did with Abraham as he had deceived Abimelech, from who he got Hagar the Egyptian servant and had to send Ishmael away. It wasn't until later when God gave Issac to Sarah, and eventually lead to the sacrifice of Issac. The sacrifice itself wasn't what it first appeared to be, actually it was about Abraham's faith and God's mercy. Jesus himself said it's not about sacrifice but mercy, that the Pharisees should go learn what this means.

The above approach trying to understand scripture through Jesus, I think about the differences between God and man. Esau was a hypocrite, though his brother used deception getting his blessing. He also confesses not only did Jacob get his blessing but before he got his birthright. The birthright was legitimately attained as Esau gave it to Jacob, along with it would include his claim to the blessing given to the firstborn. But another way to think about it is compassion, you wouldn't want your brother to serve you because he wanted something for himself or take from you what's yours for himself.

What if Issac who's supposedly blind actually knew everything, a lesson to not assume God doesn't know what's in our hearts. In Genesis 28, it said Esau saw Issac blessed Jacob who was sent to Padam Aram both protecting him and find a wife. That Jacob obeyed not only his mother but his father too. So while his mother and brother deceived his father, they didn't disobey Issac. Neither were perfect and right about it, but in their hearts they sought to do the will of God and Issac. Considering Esau married the illegitimate son of Abraham's daughter Mahalath and had other wives, he didn't have it in him to serve either.

 

[ewq1938]

I can't accept God's lack of judgement at the time as an excuse for wrongs.

They weren't wrongs. Various forms of lying/deception is righteous when done for a righteous purpose and a lack of punishment by God does mean he approved of it. Rahab did pretty well for herself for what she did.

Jos 6:25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
Jos 6:26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the LORD, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it.
Jos 6:27 So the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

They weren't wrongs. Various forms of lying/deception is righteous when done for a righteous purpose and a lack of punishment by God does mean he approved of it. Rahab did pretty well for herself for what she did.

Jos 6:25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
Jos 6:26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the LORD, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it.
Jos 6:27 So the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.

You don't think deception and lying are very human things to do? Isn't God above it being pure in spirit, his word is all that's good including the truth? Below it's God who told the truth as he had warned them not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and it was the Serpent (Satan) who had deceived them. From what I remember, in the Bible only Satan and men deceived/lied.

Genesis 3:1-4
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

If God's word are promises he keeps, both on earth and in heaven, of the promised land to his chosen people and of eternal life to the elect; I can't accept that man's ways are God's way. Either there's a lesson to be learned as we understand the context in time whether it's within what were reading of places and people etc. (Genesis 20:2-3, Genesis 20:9, Genesis 21:31) Genesis 21:23-24, Genesis 21:31) or foreshadowing of God's plan and the coming of Christ (Genesis 3:14-15, Genesis 3:16-17).

 

[ewq1938]

My answer remains the same. Various forms of lying/deception is righteous when done for a righteous purpose. Scripture supports this.

You don't think deception and lying are very human things to do? Isn't God above it being pure in spirit, his word is all that's good including the truth? Below it's God who told the truth as he had warned them not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and it was the Serpent (Satan) who had deceived them. From what I remember, in the Bible only Satan and men deceived/lied.

Genesis 3:1-4
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

If God's word are promises he keeps, both on earth and in heaven, of the promised land to his chosen people and of eternal life to the elect; I can't accept that man's ways are God's way. Either there's a lesson to be learned as we understand the context in time whether it's within what were reading of places and people etc. (Genesis 20:2-3, Genesis 20:9, Genesis 21:31) Genesis 21:23-24, Genesis 21:31) or foreshadowing of God's plan and the coming of Christ (Genesis 3:14-15, Genesis 3:16-17).

 

[ewq1938]

1Ki_22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

1Ki_22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2Ch_18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

2Ch_18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

 

[Resha Caner]

My answer remains the same. Various forms of lying/deception is righteous when done for a righteous purpose. Scripture supports this.

I disagree.