Esau and Jacob

[PeterPaul]

I have a question pertaining to the relationship of Esau and Jacob. I was wondering what historically is viewed about their relationship and if there is any present day or future comparison. I know this appears to be a broad question, but understand that I may have never heard the Jewish perspective of this relationship so bare with me! Thanks be to G-d!


Shalom to all my friends!

 

[Henaynei]

I have a question pertaining to the relationship of Esau and Jacob. I was wondering what historically is viewed about their relationship and if there is any present day or future comparison. I know this appears to be a broad question, but understand that I may have never heard the Jewish perspective of this relationship so bare with me! Thanks be to G-d!

Shalom to all my friends!

Shalom,

I don't have an answer right this sec - BUT

I was passing by and *just* realized you are in Spain (must be the new flags Erwin has added has me looking at them)....
I wanted to extend my deep and heartfelt condolences for the bombings and for your election - all of Europe is in my prayers....

 

[simchat_torah]

Yes, it is very broad

what historically is viewed about their relationship and if there is any present day or future comparison.

Between the two men, as in how they treated each other? Or what literal relationship? I'm very lost in an answer without a tad more specifics.

Thanks DoF,
yafet

 

[PeterPaul]

Thank you so much Henayei. I have lived in the States for the past ten years, although I listen to the news online, talk to my cousins everyday, and go home every year. I too, pity the new administration, what can you do?

Simchat, I'm sorry. I've heard that the relationship between the two is a comparison of Jew and Arab, or another source told me it was between Christian and Jew (not that Christians existed in that time, but that it is with regard to our future relationship). As many in this forum have given me a perspective on the potentional sacrifice of Issac, I was wondering if there was anything you could share on the relationship between Esau and Jacob.

If I'm still unclear, please let me know. I understand it can be difficult when someone appears to be asking to redact the entire relationship between the two!

Thank you my friend

Shalom

 

[iitb]

Thanks DoF,
yafet

/me whispers to Yafet, "It's PeterPaul, not D0F."

 

[PeterPaul]

Thanks Justin! LOL

 

[Christy4Christ]

LOL

 

[debi b]

Maybe this could get you started. There is alot to talk about here.

19 This is the genealogy of Isaac, Abraham's son. Abraham begot Isaac. 20 Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah as wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padan Aram, the sister of Laban the Syrian. 21 Now Isaac pleaded with the Lord for his wife, because she was barren; and the Lord granted his plea, and Rebekah his wife conceived. 22 But the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If all is well, why am I like this?" So she went to inquire of the Lord.
23 And the Lord said to her:


"Two nations are in your womb,
Two peoples shall be separated from your body;
One people shall be stronger than the other,
And the older shall serve the younger."


24 So when her days were fulfilled for her to give birth, indeed there were twins in her womb. 25 And the first came out red. He was like a hairy garment all over; so they called his name *Esau. 26 Afterward his brother came out, and his hand took hold of Esau's heel; so his name was called *Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when she bore them.
27 So the boys grew. And Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field; but Jacob was a mild man, dwelling in tents. 28 And Isaac loved Esau because he ate of his game, but Rebekah loved Jacob.

 

[Toney]

To toss out a little symbolism and additional information from Genesis 25 –

Jacob, the younger of the twins, was born grasping the heel of Esau. Ya’aquob itself means deceive or supplant. He lived up to the name and tricked Isaac into bestowing his blessing or birthright upon him, not Esau. Later in the story G-d changes Jacob’s name to Israel, which means he struggled with G-d. Jacob's twelve sons become patriarchs of the Twelve Tribes.

Some suggest the Jacob-Esau struggle presages the struggle for G-d’s Divine favor between Christians and Jews. Frankly, I think it is a stretch since neither religion lays claim to Esau. (It might be noted that Abraham also fathered two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. Most agree that Arabs are the seed of the illegitimate Ishmael; Jews the seed of Isaac, the son of Abraham and Sarah.)

G-d once again shows preference for the younger offspring in the story of the Prodigal Son.

Interpretation of the Esau-Jacob story is a hot potato and has been twisted to sanction anti-Semitism. To appreciate fully the symbolism associated with Jacob, one would have to be familiar with the Targum, the Aramaic version of the Bible. I am not.

I think I have the story straight.

/me posts to MJ, an outside forum, with permission of Pray4Israel, which I do daily.

 

[simchat_torah]

oooooops

 

[Giantkiller]

There should never be anything that is a hot potato in the bible, facts are facts.

I can't see why the Jacob and Esau issue should be a hot potato, that is the way it is, and the only reason it would be a hot potato, is because someone is, and has deceiving the people for so long, and do not want to be exposed.

Who is Jacob's seedline today, can anyone tell me, because I read in my bible that Jacob's seedline received so many promises from God, and I read that they were everlasting promises and are still effective today. And I want to find our more of the promises, this is so exciting!

Please can anyone tell me where I can talk to some of them!

 

[PeterPaul]

I would certainly like to ask an MJ, but if this issue is voltile, then I would ask a moderator to shut it down. I certainly, out of respect, do not want to inadvertantly insult anyone or allow a forum for others to do so.

Shalom

 

[iitb]

Per request of the OP, this thread is closed.

 

[iitb]

Having sorted out the issues from yesterday, I have PeterPaul's permission to re-open this thread. Everyone please keep in mind that he's asking for the MJ perspective. Please respect his wishes.

 

[debi b]

Traditionally much has been said about the character of Yaacov (Jacob). Perhaps we can gain some clarity from Scripture itself.

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew; and Esau was a skilful hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a quiet man, living in tents.

The word translated as "quiet" here is (this is hard to do without a Hebrew font) Tav Mem. It is an adjective meaning "whole, complete, perfect, pious" This is used many times throughout Scripture ALWAYS positively. This tells us something about Adonai's view of his character.

Gen 27:36 And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he has supplanted me these two times; he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he has taken away my blessing. And he said, Have you not reserved a blessing for me?

We always take our clues from how to look at Jacob from Esau. Why? When Adonai clearly stated another point of view?

Let's look at the letters in Jacob's name. The root is yod kof bet. There are several words with these letters.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

Here it is used as a noun meaning "heel".

Gen 22:18 And in your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

Here the same root is used as a conjunction translated as "because"

Gen 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Again here the same root is used as a conjunction translated as "because"

What if we string together the usage of this root this way. The yod in a noun such as Yaacov often is a preformative for the imperfect aspect of a verb root and we can think of its usage as "he will". Can we then think of the direction for this concept something along the lines that the direction for bringing about the promise in Gen 3:15 will come thru Jacob. Do we have a play on words stating that thru him will be birthed what will bring this to pass? Maybe another way to look at that.....