Ephesians 2:8-9

Biarien · Mar 23, 2004

2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. [NET]

I was reading this, and upon a casual reading, it seems as if Paul is writing that the faith that saves us is a gift from God. This seems like it would mean God chooses who He saves and who He doesn't. I don't really agree with this idea though, because then the people that are doomed to destruction/hell are actively sent there by God. However, I looked at the verse a bit more, and I came up with this conclusion:

The phrases "this is not from yourselves" and "it is the gift of God" are a bit obscure. Does "this" mean grace? Or salvation? Or faith? They seem to be referring to faith simply because faith is the last thing listed, but as I said earlier, that seems wrong to me. Looking at verse 9, it says "it is not from works." What is not from works? Faith, salvation, grace? In his other writings Paul contrasts salvation by faith with salvation by works. If Paul is keeping in line with his writing, which it should be assumed he is doing if scripture is inspired, then this message should be the same. Therefore, if "it" means salvation, we get this phrasing of verses 8-9: "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this salvation is not from yourselves; salvation is the gift of God; salvation is not from works, so that no one can boast."

I feel like this interpretation makes a lot more sense, and is more consistent with the rest of the message in the New Testament. I just thought I'd share this to see what everyone has to say. Am I horribly wrong? Do you agree? Am I over-analyzing this?

Symes · Mar 23, 2004

"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (NIV)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (KJV)

"For (21) by grace you have been saved (22) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (23) the gift of God;
9 (24) not as a result of works, so that (25) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (26) created in (27) Christ Jesus for (28) good works, which God (29) prepared beforehand so that we would (30) walk in them." (NASB)

They are all saying the same thing. We cannot work our way to heaven. There is no good in us to merit favour from God. Salvation is a free gift. We did not start the process and all we can do is accept what has been done for us on the cross.

Biarien · Mar 23, 2004

Symes said:
They are all saying the same thing. We cannot work our way to heaven. There is no good in us to merit favour from God. Salvation is a free gift. We did not start the process and all we can do is accept what has been done for us on the cross.

I agree.

@@Paul@@ · Mar 24, 2004

They are almost all saying the same thing..

10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (NIV)

10 For we are His workmanship, (26) created in (27) Christ Jesus for (28) good works, which God (29) prepared beforehand so that we would (30) walk in them." (NASB)

Eph 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
KJV

I know this may sound silly but,,, God did not prepare good works for us as the NIV and NASB state. He prepared US to do good works. We are His "workmanship" or better yet... the greek work for workmanship is how we get the word "Poem"... Ever think of yourself as a poem?

Salvation is a gift, they all say that... BUT we need to choose to do good works and we are given no good reason not to...

markmayer23 · Mar 25, 2004

Eph. 2:8-9 says, that the gift of God is his grace (saving) given to those who believe (through faith) in Jesus Christ His Son and that gift (grace) is not from ourselves to work on (doing good works) so that no one will ever boast (take pride in it)... But this passage doesn't say that we are not going to do good works anymore... v10 says that we are God's workmanship created in Jesus Christ to do good works....

Jesus My Wisdom · Mar 28, 2004

Breanainn said:
2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. [NET]

I was reading this, and upon a casual reading, it seems as if Paul is writing that the faith that saves us is a gift from God. This seems like it would mean God chooses who He saves and who He doesn't. I don't really agree with this idea though, because then the people that are doomed to destruction/hell are actively sent there by God. However, I looked at the verse a bit more, and I came up with this conclusion:

The phrases "this is not from yourselves" and "it is the gift of God" are a bit obscure. Does "this" mean grace? Or salvation? Or faith? They seem to be referring to faith simply because faith is the last thing listed, but as I said earlier, that seems wrong to me. Looking at verse 9, it says "it is not from works." What is not from works? Faith, salvation, grace? In his other writings Paul contrasts salvation by faith with salvation by works. If Paul is keeping in line with his writing, which it should be assumed he is doing if scripture is inspired, then this message should be the same. Therefore, if "it" means salvation, we get this phrasing of verses 8-9: "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this salvation is not from yourselves; salvation is the gift of God; salvation is not from works, so that no one can boast."

I feel like this interpretation makes a lot more sense, and is more consistent with the rest of the message in the New Testament. I just thought I'd share this to see what everyone has to say. Am I horribly wrong? Do you agree? Am I over-analyzing this?

No, it is not referring to faith. The noun genders do not grammatically agree so this is impossible. However, this does not stop many people from making this claim anyway.

The gift of God is being saved. The word "grace" by itself implies a gift. If Paul had only said, "by grace you have been saved" it would imply a gift without saying anything further. But he wants to emphasize this salvation event was a gift.

By GRACE you have been saved....

It (salvation) is the GIFT of God....

Jesus My Wisdom

Biarien · Mar 28, 2004

Er, yeah...that's the conclusion I came to.

I said I've seen it used to say that faith is a gift from God, but that seems wrong to me. That's all.

@@Paul@@ · Mar 29, 2004

In Galations Paul says it's not even OUR faith that 'justifies' us, It's the Faith OF Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:16
even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Any thoughts on how this might tie in? Is the faith here OUR faith of the faith OF Christ?----------- If it's not even our faith that saves us, we truely can do nothing to 'earn' our salvation...

Biarien · Mar 29, 2004

Those are interesting verses. Thanks for bringing them up.

Jesus My Wisdom · Mar 29, 2004

@@Paul@@ said:
In Galations Paul says it's not even OUR faith that 'justifies' us, It's the Faith OF Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:16
even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Any thoughts on how this might tie in? Is the faith here OUR faith of the faith OF Christ?----------- If it's not even our faith that saves us, we truely can do nothing to 'earn' our salvation...

The "faith of Christ" does not mean Christ's personal faith but is Paul's way of saying "the Christian faith." It is a reference to the way of Christianity, not to personal acts of faith.

JMW

Symes · Mar 29, 2004

For by grace you are saved

That is how we are saved, by "grace"

@@Paul@@ · Mar 29, 2004

That is how we are saved, by "grace"

Amen.

Jesus even refered to His disciples as having "little faith". A little faith is still faith, is it enough?
So with faith one asks the question of "How MUCH faith do you have?" So, what exactly is saving faith? and if we lose faith do we lose the grace? Absolutely not. Because it is NOT our faith that saves us. It[salvation] is by grace!

Symes · Mar 30, 2004

So, what exactly is saving faith? and if we lose faith do we lose the grace? Absolutely not.

Absolutely NOT so my brother, Once we stop believing we lose the link that binds us to God. The grace of God cannot be appropriated without faith.

@@Paul@@ · Mar 30, 2004

Symes said:
Absolutely NOT so my brother, Once we stop believing we lose the link that binds us to God. The grace of God cannot be appropriated without faith.

Are you saying we can lose our salvation?

Symes · Mar 30, 2004

Are you saying we can lose our salvation?

For sure, we can lose salvation just as we can gain slavation if we believe then if we do not believe. We lose it.

The Bible is very clear on this subject.

2 Peter 2:20-22

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

Spear Man · Apr 4, 2004

This passage is one of the most often quoted by supporters of "faith alone." Contextually speaking this does not even imply faith alone. Paul contrasts the phrase "not because of works" with grace here to point out that man cannot "boast" in anything apart from grace. Human nature apart from grace has no claim to heaven. In other words, human nature apart from grace cannot obligate God into giving man entrance into heaven. God offers humanity hope in Christ in overcoming the power of sin and death; for Christ through the Cross has conqured their power. Grace is the solution to the problem of sin. Notice it is the boastful, proud man with whom Paul is concerned.This man thinks he can obligate God by his human works. this system of legalistic works righteousness is what Paul is consistently condemning. we cannot bargain or contract our way into heaven; salvation is a gift freely offered by a merciful God, not a wage or salary earned.*****Notice in verse 10 there is a different type of works Paul sees as essential ; the good works of those created by Christ Jesus. Therefore, works done as a believer, by grace through faith which neccessarily works in love (Galatians 5:6) are important. It is grace impowered works vs. works apart form grace which we can see being distinguished. Notice in verse 10 we see God prepared for us good works in advance that we might walk in them. This is so great a purpose; to recreate us so that we might image Him. So we can see in this passage we are saved by grace alone, through faith. But notice faith alone is not stated.

Biarien · Apr 4, 2004

Well, faith is our end of the deal, so to speak. Is that something you agree with?

Spear Man · Apr 4, 2004

Breanainn said:
Well, faith is our end of the deal, so to speak. Is that something you agree with?

Yes...Faith is what we need, but the reformation slogan of sola fide is not biblical.

visionary · Apr 4, 2004

It is faith that give us hope and our faith in Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. He is our hope of salvation.

Serapha · Apr 4, 2004

Symes said:
Absolutely NOT so my brother, Once we stop believing we lose the link that binds us to God. The grace of God cannot be appropriated without faith.

Hi there!

How untrue!

God doesn't do things half-way... once God becomes your Father, and you become His child, the relationship will never be severed. The fellowship might suffer, but the relationship is eternal.

~serapha~

Ephesians 2:8-9

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