Environmentalism

[HouseApe]

I am a rabid, tree-hugging environmentalist. I think every form of life is magnificent in its own right, and deserves an equal right to exist as humanity. Don't misunderstand this last statement. I don't mean that given the life of a human versus the life of a lion, I would choose equally. I would choose the human. What I mean is that given the choice between a human and an entire species of lion, I would choose the entire species of lion.

Humans are a part of nature. And I think humans can expand their territory up to the point where it threatens the existence of any other life form. At that point, I believe humans should be content to maintain the biological status quo.

I am an environmentalist because I consider each life form to be a treasure of knowledge. Each is unique, has its own history, and ecological niche. I have always loved learning about different life forms, how they work, and how they interact with other life forms. To me, the extinction of a life form is like the loss of an artistic masterpiece. It is like the destruction of the Mona Lisa or the Taj Majal. It is theft, from me, mankind and future generations.

With the rapid population growth of humans, I expect that at some point in the not too distant future, the only life that will remain will be humans and those that are either necessary for human existence as food or live in environments that humans cannot fully exploit, like the deep ocean bottoms.

If there are other environmentalists on this board, why are you an environmentalist? For others, do you consider the world better off without all of these other life forms? For Christians, when God gave man dominion over His creation, do you think he wants us to treat His creation like a benevolent king, or a despotic murderer?

 

[kedaman]

Idolatrers

 

[FadingWhispers3]

You could say that I am an environmentalist. There are several reasons. One is a selfish one: we don't know the implications of the disappearing species and variety of life. It may turn out that we are so intrinsically tied that in destroying them, we destroy ourselves. One reason is because of beauty. I admire life. One reason is abstract: I think that there something wrong if we must put a $ value on everything or else it is not worthy protecting. In other words, we should not simply protect rainforest because their might be some profitable drug to be found. We should not simply protect "cute" animals because we somehow identify with them more.

Of course, I value humans much greater than anything else... but then species bias is to be expected. If we could ask lions, I'd think they would prefer themselves to humans.

If there is such a being as God, I would think that God assigned humans the position to be stewards of the world and the creatures in it, this implying we should treat well what is entrusted to us or else betray the trust of God if God is the one who gives it to us.

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

I don't think God wants us to burn down housing subdivisions because they back up to protected wetlands.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38836-2004Dec6.html?sub=AR

These extremists damaged $10 million+ of already developed property and put people's lives in jeopardy not because they plowed down an area that harbors endangered animals...nooooo, but because it bordered alongside a protected wetland that is home to endangered insects. Anyway, I don't believe God wants us to misuse our dominion over animals, ergo, I find sport hunting and animal testing deplorable and I am also a vegetarian; however, two wrongs do not make a right. Torching lumber yards and blowing up housing subdivisions is just crazy, no matter how much you love nature.

 

[HouseApe]

I don't think God wants us to burn down housing subdivisions because they back up to protected wetlands.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38836-2004Dec6.html?sub=AR

These extremists damaged $10 million+ of already developed property and put people's lives in jeopardy not because they plowed down an area that harbors endangered animals...nooooo, but because it bordered alongside a protected wetland that is home to endangered insects. Anyway, I don't believe God wants us to misuse our dominion over animals, ergo, I find sport hunting and animal testing deplorable and I am also a vegetarian; however, two wrongs do not make a right. Torching lumber yards and blowing up housing subdivisions is just crazy, no matter how much you love nature.

Happy Birthday fluffy!

I agree that destroying property is wrong, though I consider insects to be just as valuable bald eagles or elephants. If I knew that a housing development was going to mean the extinction of some species, I would consider blowing it up. The loss of a unique life form is not worth a bunch of numb skulls attempting to live out their materialistic fantasies.

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

Happy Birthday fluffy!

Thank you

I agree that destroying property is wrong, though I consider insects to be just as valuable bald eagles or elephants.

I value all life as precious, but the same principle applies to anti-abortion extremists who bomb abortion clinics. I would never even think to go to such a great length to prove a point. Nothing changes when extremists try and make an example by destroying property and risking lives (sometimes even taking lives).

If I knew that a housing development was going to mean the extinction of some species, I would consider blowing it up. The loss of a unique life form is not worth a bunch of numb skulls attempting to live out their materialistic fantasies.

I agree to an extent. In the case of what happened in Maryland, the housing development did not directly pose a threat to the surrounding wetlands. It could have, but it didn't at that moment. Materialism is a sad thing, but so is radical activism. It's one thing to peacefully protest. It's quite another to destroy valuable property and put other people's lives in jeopardy because, let's face it, in the grand scheme of things human life should take precedence over insects and plants. I know that if I had invested in a home and it was destroyed by arson I would be devestated. I think that's the point I'm trying to make. Lest we should forget, in the beginning God created Adam to have dominion over the animals, but man and animals lived in the Garden of Eden in perfect harmony. The first bloodshed in the Bible occured when God slayed an animal for the skins to make clothing for Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness - something that wasn't an issue until after sin entered the world. It was God's plan that human beings would eat from the fruit-bearing trees and grains, not kill animals for food. After Adam and Eve sinned, God cursed Adam with having to hunt for his own food, something he had never done before. I don't believe it is sinful, per se, to eat meat. I think it's sad how we've exploited our natural resources in pursuit of the "almighty dollar".

Dairy farms pump animals full of harmful growth excellerants because they have to quickly produce milk and eggs to keep up with demand. Land is haphazardly plowed to put up bigger and better buildings and housing developments. It's no wonder the countries abroad, who cherish their historical buildings as opposed to tearing them down to build new ones, think we Americans are squanderous people. The solution is not to commit terroristic crimes to send a message. The solution is educating others about the devestating consequences of supply and demand among our food distributors and prominent land developers.

 

[Natman]

Houseape,

Unfortunately, the day you were born, you became part of the problem. I do not know how old you are, but you may descide to procreate, if you haven't already done so, in which time you will also increase the problem. If you live in a man-made abode, drive a car, ride a bike, use any power demanding appliances (including your computer), you are indirectly destroying or altering the habitat of some critter. It is impossible for man to exist WITHOUT having some affect on the environment.

I am not an "environmentalist", although, through honoring God and being a good steward and a Boy Scout, I understand the value of all living things on this planet... even insects (even those rotten mosquitoes). God gave us dominion over nature and ordered us to subdue it. I believe that means take care of it, because it is our lifes blood. I also believe that God values human life far greater than other life, because of His commands and because of the relationship He desires to have with us through His scriptures.

We should protect the environment, but not at the expense of human life.

Nate

 

[HouseApe]

Houseape,

Unfortunately, the day you were born, you became part of the problem. I do not know how old you are, but you may descide to procreate, if you haven't already done so, in which time you will also increase the problem. If you live in a man-made abode, drive a car, ride a bike, use any power demanding appliances (including your computer), you are indirectly destroying or altering the habitat of some critter. It is impossible for man to exist WITHOUT having some affect on the environment.

I do not consider any individual to be part of the problem. Human beings are just as much a part of nature as any other life form, and have as much right to take part in the planet. Of course we have an affect on the environment and the environment will have an affect on us, we are co-dependent.

I am not an "environmentalist", although, through honoring God and being a good steward and a Boy Scout, I understand the value of all living things on this planet... even insects (even those rotten mosquitoes). God gave us dominion over nature and ordered us to subdue it. I believe that means take care of it, because it is our lifes blood. I also believe that God values human life far greater than other life, because of His commands and because of the relationship He desires to have with us through His scriptures.

I'm an atheist, so obviously I would disagree with your outlook here.

We should protect the environment, but not at the expense of human life.

Nate

The whole point though is what is "at the expense of human life". There are 6 billion humans on the planet. I don't think anyone is calling for killing off all people. Isn't 6 billion enough? Do we have to have 12 billion? 30 billion? Couldn't we say 6 billion is enough and leave the rest for all other life forms. Wouldn't human life be better that way?

I have procreated. My wife and I chose to have 2 children. One to replace me and one to replace her. If everyone did that, we would never have an unfixable problem. Population control is the key. 2 children are fine, that is the only big sacrifice we as a species would have to make.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Question, how far do you take protection of animals? Bacteria, would they count? I would of thought that you would have disagreed because it is impossable to keep a tab on them. They do however have an effect on the world.
:/

Although i do support enviromentalism, i wouldn't do anything currently labeled as extremeist. There are proper channels for such debate etc. Use them.

 

[Chaus Kitty]

I'm not a rabid tree-hugger that blows up SUVs, but I have a very strong stance on the environment.

Environmentalism does not come at the expense of human life, it is for the benefit of all life, humans included.

 

[Phred]

God gave us dominion over nature and ordered us to subdue it.

Bullpuckey. Let's be clear, YOU BELIEVE that there's a God and that he gave you dominion over nature. I do not. I think that's another fairy tale people use to justify their actions.

.​

 

[HouseApe]

Question, how far do you take protection of animals? Bacteria, would they count? I would of thought that you would have disagreed because it is impossable to keep a tab on them. They do however have an effect on the world.
:/

Although i do support enviromentalism, i wouldn't do anything currently labeled as extremeist. There are proper channels for such debate etc. Use them.

Of course bacteria count. Humans are reliant on bacteria for digestion. Without bacteria, we all die.

Suppose that a law was passed by parliament making it legal to kill French residents of the UK. And local thugs go about doing just that. At what point does debate end and extreme action begin?

That is a rhetorical question, because it is different for everyone based upon their beliefs and priorities.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

I believe that we are called to be stewards of all creation. I think God is an environmentalist. God didn't fill creation with concrete and steel. Man did. The state of our environment is just another symptom of the sinful state of mankind. A perfect example of our separation from God.

 

[morningstar2651]

Recommended Reading:
Walden -- Henry David Thoreau
Desert Solitaire -- Edward Abbey
A Sand County Almanac -- Aldo Leopold

 

[HouseApe]

Recommended Reading:
Walden -- Henry David Thoreau
Desert Solitaire -- Edward Abbey
A Sand County Almanac -- Aldo Leopold

Walden is one of my favorite books of all time. I'll look into the other two.

 

[Phred]

I believe that we are called to be stewards of all creation.

We agree... can't imagine how that happened.

.​

 

[Kal'thzar]

My question about bacteria was also to do with the fact that you could take a sample of soil and maybe some new species of bacteria is in there (almost definitly i think) due to the fact that bacteria is able to evolve so fast. How would this affect your position?

Also Seeing as it would be nigh impossible to protect all the bacteria, otherwise you would be standing in the way of progress, survival of the fittest so to speak.

Complex questions do not deserve to be shunted to the side, they should always be adderessed

 

[HouseApe]

My question about bacteria was also to do with the fact that you could take a sample of soil and maybe some new species of bacteria is in there (almost definitly i think) due to the fact that bacteria is able to evolve so fast. How would this affect your position?

I would always take a position in favor of the bacteria.

Also Seeing as it would be nigh impossible to protect all the bacteria, otherwise you would be standing in the way of progress, survival of the fittest so to speak.

It is not my intention to protect all living things, just all living species. We do not know of every species on the planet. I think a reasonable survey of land prior to its paving is in order. How does this "stand in the way of progress"? Progress towards what?

Complex questions do not deserve to be shunted to the side, they should always be adderessed

I certainly didn't intend to shunt any questions aside. I likely misinterpreted the level of complexity of response you were looking for.

 

[Phred]

My question about bacteria was also to do with the fact that you could take a sample of soil and maybe some new species of bacteria is in there (almost definitly i think) due to the fact that bacteria is able to evolve so fast. How would this affect your position?

Also Seeing as it would be nigh impossible to protect all the bacteria, otherwise you would be standing in the way of progress, survival of the fittest so to speak.

Complex questions do not deserve to be shunted to the side, they should always be adderessed

It's an interesting point. Where do we draw the line? If we can reasonably kill bacteria then why do butterflies matter? Or rhinoceros?

In the case of bacteria they'll be fine no matter what we do with the land. The damn things survive no matter where you put 'em. So a strip mall isn't gonna harm 'em. But if you're really bothered, throw a few in a petri dish. They won't notice.

I understand your point. What I'd ask is that we simply understand that when a species is threatened with extinction, do we have a choice? Must we hunt whales because the Japanese are enthralled with their meat? Or can the Japanese survive on a few puffer fish and call it a day? Must black rhinos be destroyed because of some Chinese mythology that suggests their horns, when powdered, increase virility? What about the great apes? Are the people there so hungry we should allow them to be eaten or butchered and sold to the same supersititious Chinese?

When do individual people matter more than an entire species? As a species I will always take humanity over another. Seriously... what species have we wiped out that it was necessary to wipe out?

.​

 

[Onemonthman]

I am a rabid, tree-hugging environmentalist. I think every form of life is magnificent in its own right, and deserves an equal right to exist as humanity. Don't misunderstand this last statement. I don't mean that given the life of a human versus the life of a lion, I would choose equally. I would choose the human. What I mean is that given the choice between a human and an entire species of lion, I would choose the entire species of lion.

Humans are a part of nature. And I think humans can expand their territory up to the point where it threatens the existence of any other life form. At that point, I believe humans should be content to maintain the biological status quo.

I am an environmentalist because I consider each life form to be a treasure of knowledge. Each is unique, has its own history, and ecological niche. I have always loved learning about different life forms, how they work, and how they interact with other life forms. To me, the extinction of a life form is like the loss of an artistic masterpiece. It is like the destruction of the Mona Lisa or the Taj Majal. It is theft, from me, mankind and future generations.

With the rapid population growth of humans, I expect that at some point in the not too distant future, the only life that will remain will be humans and those that are either necessary for human existence as food or live in environments that humans cannot fully exploit, like the deep ocean bottoms.

If there are other environmentalists on this board, why are you an environmentalist? For others, do you consider the world better off without all of these other life forms? For Christians, when God gave man dominion over His creation, do you think he wants us to treat His creation like a benevolent king, or a despotic murderer?

I am really unconcerned with this planet. I don't go around trashing it and love the outdoors but this place is going to burn and be destroyed and re-built.