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JM

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frumanchu said:
IIRC, the new edition of the New Geneva Study Bible is ESV. Doesn't that create a moral dilemma? ;)

It does, for me, that's why I won't buy it. ;) Do you know what the WCC teaches and believes? If you do and you're fine with it, buy the Bible.
 
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frumanchu

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Street Preacher said:
It does, for me, that's why I won't buy it. ;) Do you know what the WCC teaches and believes? If you do and you're fine with it, buy the Bible.

Actually, I just checked up on it, and the only way the ESV is connected with the WCC is that the ESV fixed most of the errors of the RSV that the WCC put out. The WCC is not responsible for the ESV, and as far as I can tell the WCC is not financially supported in any way by the purchase of the ESV.

J.I. Packer wrote a good article on the improvements in the ESV over the RSV at http://www.bible-researcher.com/esv.html
 
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JM

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Good, happy to hear it.

If the ESV is a fixed up verison of the RSV, then the WCC gets a kick back for having the base text.

Doesn't Packer deny the Biblical teaching that hell is eternal? Isn't he a part of the now suspended Anglican Church of Canada?
 
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frumanchu

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To my knowledge, Packer upholds the eternality of Hell. I'm not sure about the Anglican Church of Canada thing.

I have yet to find any evidence of the WCC getting any support from someone's purchase of an ESV Bible. If you have an evidence of this, please share it.
 
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Elderone

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I was in the process this week of finding out what the Reformation Study Bible had in it with the purpose of buying one, if it looked to be better than my Matthew Henry. I absolutely will NOT buy it if any of you find out that the WCC gets money from the sale.

If anyone is pursuing this let us know what is found out.

Thanks.
 
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Elderone

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Imblessed said:
Ignorance rearing it's ugly head here---What is the WCC???

It is the "World Council of Churches". Check it out on the web as my information is dated. What I do remember is that Christians wouldn't want, ever, to be associated with it or do anything that would help it in any way.
 
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Imblessed

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am I missing something here? I looked up World Council of Churches and on the surface it doesn't look bad. I looked to see who was part of it, and they all "looked" orthodox--no mormons, or muslims etc---I'm not sure what the problem is.

maybe I'm overlooking something obvious here.......
 
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JM

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JamesCarter

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The ESV is a "word-on-word", essentially literal translation. The translation team includes more than 100 people who share a common commiment to historic evangelical orthodoxy and the authority of the inerrant Scriptures. Please visit the Publishers,Crossway, website for in-depth information. Some of the evangelicals who endorse the ESV are:

R.C. Sproul
John Piper
Joni Tada
Jerry Bridges
Albert Mohler
John Walvoord
Robert Yarbrough
Kenneth Kantzer

I seriously doubt that the above evangelicals would endorse the ESV if it were financially connected to the WCC. I read the ESV and find it a wonderful read.

Soli Deo Gloria
 
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JM

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ESV Translation Review Scholars

The following people comprise the team of more than fifty Translation Review Scholars. The Translation Review Scholars are an international team from many denominations who were chosen to review selected books of the Old or New Testament in conjunction with the Translation Oversight Committee, based on their special expertise in the original languages and specific books of the Bible.

Dr. T. D. Alexander Director of the Christian Training Centre
Union Theological College Belfast
B.A., The Queen's University of Belfast
Ph.D., The Queen's University of Belfast Dr. Clinton E. Arnold Professor of New Testament Language and Literature
Talbot School of Theology
B.A., Biola University
M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen Dr. William D. Barrick Professor of Old Testament
The Master's Seminary
B.A., Denver Baptist Bible College
M.Div., San Francisco Theological Seminary
Th.M., San Francisco Theological Seminary
Th.D., Grace Theological Seminary Dr. Hans F. Bayer Associate Professor of New Testament
Covenant Seminary
M.A., Ashland Theological Seminary
M.Div., Ashland Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen Dr. Gregory Beale Professor of New Testament
Wheaton College
B.A., Southern Methodist University
M.A., Southern Methodist University
Th.M., Dallas Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. Ronald Bergey Professeur d'Hébreu et d'Ancient Testament
Faculté libre de Théologie réformée Aix-en-Provence, France
B.S., Philadelphia College of Bible
M.A., Jerusalem University
Ph.D., Dropsie University Dr. Daniel I. Block John R. Sampey Professor of Old Testament Interpretation
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
B.Ed., University of Saskatchewan
B.A., University of Saskatchewan
M.A., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Ph.D., University of Liverpool Dr. Craig L. Blomberg Professor of New Testament
Denver Seminary
B.A., Augustana College
M.A., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen Dr. Darrell L. Bock Research Professor of New Testament Studies
Dallas Theological Seminary
B.A., University of Texas at Austin
Th.M., Dallas Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen Dr. Irvin A. Busenitz Vice President for Academic Administration
Professor of Bible Exposition and Old Testament
The Master's Seminary B.A., Grace College of the Bible
M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary
Th.M., Talbot Theological Seminary
Th.D., Grace Theological Seminary Mr. Edward E. Chandler Ph.D. (cand.)
Catholic University of America
M. Div., Covenant Seminary Dr. Daniel L. Gard Dean of Graduate Studies
Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne, IN
B.A., Carthage College
M.Div., Concordia Theological Seminary
M.A., University of Notre Dame
Ph.D., University of Notre Dame Dr. Robert P. Gordon Regius Professor of Hebrew
Cambridge University
M.A., Cambridge University
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. Gene L. Green Associate Professor of New Testament
Wheaton College
B.A., Wheaton College
M.A., Wheaton College Graduate School
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen Dr. Michael Grisanti Associate Professor of Old Testament
The Master's Seminary
B.A., Pillsbury Baptist Bible College
M.Div., Central Baptist Theological Seminary
Th.M., Central Baptist Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Dallas Theological Seminary Dr. George H. Guthrie Associate Professor of Christian Studies
Union University
B.A., Union University
M.Div., Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
Th.M., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Ph.D., Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary Dr. Scott J. Hafemann Professor, Hawthorne Chair of New Testament Greek and Exegesis
Wheaton College
B.A., Bethel College
M.A., Fuller Theological Seminary
Dr. Theol., University of Tübingen Dr. Charles D. Harvey [current position not on file]
B.A., Taylor University
M.Div., Reformed Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Edinburgh Dr. Richard S. Hess Professor of Old Testament
Denver Seminary
B.A., Wheaton College
M.Div., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Th.M., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Ph.D., Hebrew Union College Dr. Harold W. Hoehner Senior Professor of New Testament Studies
Dallas Theological Seminary
B.A., Barrington College
Th.M., Dallas Theological Seminary
Th.D., Dallas Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. David M. Howard Jr. Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew
New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
B.S., Geneva College
M.A., Wheaton College
Ph.D., University of Michigan Dr. Gordon P. Hugenberger Senior Pastor
Park Street Church, Boston, MA
B.A., Harvard University
M.Div., Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
Ph.D., College of St. Paul and St. Mary Dr. Philip Johnston Professor of Old Testament
Wycliff Hall, UK
B.A., University of Cambridge
B.D., Queen's University, Belfast
M.Th., Queen's University, Belfast
Ph.D., University of Cambridge Dr. Reggie McReynolds Kidd Associate Professor of New Testament
Reformed Theological Seminary, Orlando, FL
B.A., College of William and Mary
M.A.R., Westminster Theological Seminary
M.Div., Westminster Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Duke University Dr. Nobuyoshi Kiuchi Professor of Old Testament
Tokyo Christian University
B.A., Tokyo University of Foreign Studies
Ph.D., The Council for National Academic Awards Dr. Andreas J. Köstenberger Associate Professor of New Testament
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Mag. et Dr. rer. soc. oec., Vienna University of Economics
M.Div., Columbia Biblical Seminary
Ph.D., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School Dr. V. Philips Long Professor of Old Testament
Regent College
B.A., Wheaton College
M.Div., Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. Ernest Lucas Professor of Old Testament
Bristol Baptist College
M.A., Regent's Park College
Ph.D., University of Liverpool Dr. Dennis R. Magary Associate Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
B.A., Fort Wayne Bible College
M.Div., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
M.A., University of Wisconsin-Madison
Ph.D., University of Wisconsin-Madison Dr. Walter A. Maier, III Professor of Old Testament
Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne, IN
B.A., Concordia College
M.Div., Concordia Theological Seminary
M.A., Harvard University
Ph.D., Harvard University Dr. J. Gordon McConville Professor of Old Testament
Cheltenham and Gloucester College of Higher Education
B.A., Cambridge University
M.A., University of Edinburgh
Ph.D., The Queen's University of Belfast Dr. Christopher Mitchell Theological Editor
Concordia Publishing House
B.S., University of Wisconsin-Madison
M.A., University of Wisconsin-Madison
M.Div., Concordia Seminary
Ph.D., University of Wisconsin-Madison Dr. Leon Morris Former Principal of Ridley College
Melbourne, Australia
B.Sc., Sydney University
Th.L., Australian College of Theology
B.D., London University
M.Th., [university not on file]
Th.D., Cambridge University Dr. Russell Nelson Professor of Religious Studies
Division Chair
Concordia University College of Alberta
B.A., Concordia Senior College
M.Div., Concordia Seminary in Exile, St. Louis
Ph.D., Harvard University Dr. Raymond Ortlund, Jr. Pastor
First Presbyterian Church, Augusta, GA
B.A., Wheaton College
Th.M., Dallas Theological Seminary
M.A., University of California-Berkeley
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen Dr. Douglas A. Oss Pastor
Capital Christian Center, Salt Lake City, UT
B.A., Western Washington University
M.Div., Assemblies of God Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Westminster Theological Seminary Dr. John N. Oswalt Research Professor of Old Testament
Wesley Biblical Seminary
B.A., Taylor University
B.D., Asbury Theological Seminary
Th.M., Asbury Theological Seminary
M.A., Brandeis University
Ph.D., Brandeis University Dr. Iain Provan Marshall Sheppard Professor of Biblical Studies
Regent College
B.A., London Bible College
M.A., Glasgow University
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. Paul R. Raabe Professor of Exegetical Theology
Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, MO
B.S., Concordia Teachers College
M.Div., Concordia Theological Seminary
M.A., Washington University
Ph.D., University of Michigan Dr. Thomas Renz Professor of Old Testament
Oak Hill Theological College-London, UK
M.Div. (equivalent), Freie Theologische Akademie, Giessen, Germany
Ph.D., Bristol University Mr. Max Rogland Ph.D. (cand.) Leiden University
B.A., B.Mus., University of Washington
M.Div., Covenant Theological Seminary Dr. Allen Ross Former Professor of Old Testament
Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry
Th.D., Dallas Seminary
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. Thomas R. Schreiner Professor of New Testament Interpretation
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
B.S., Western Oregon University
M.Div., Western Conservative Baptist Seminary
Th.M., Western Conservative Baptist Seminary
Ph.D., Fuller Theological Seminary Dr. Moises Silva B.A., Bob Jones University
B.D., Westminster Theological Seminary
Th.M., Westminster Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Manchester Dr. Frank S. Thielman Associate Professor of Divinity
Beeson Divinity School
B.A., Wheaton College
B.A., Cambridge University
M.A., Cambridge University
Ph.D., Duke University Dr. Willem A. VanGemeren Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Studies
Director of the Ph.D. in Theological Studies
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Diploma, Moody Bible Institute
B.A., University of Illinois, Chicago
B.D., Westminster Theological Seminary
M.A., University of Wisconsin
Ph.D., University of Wisconsin Dr. James W. Voelz Professor of Exegetical Theology
Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, MO
A.A., Concordia College
B.A., Concordia Senior College
M.Div, Concordia Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Cambridge University Dr. Dean O. Wenthe President
Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne, IN
B.A., Concordia Senior College
M.A., University of Notre Dame
M.Div., Concordia Seminary
Th.M., Princeton Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Notre Dame Dr. Walter W. Wessel Former Professor of New Testament
Bethel Seminary-West
B.A., UCLA
M.A., UCLA
Ph.D., University of Edinburgh Dr. Robert W. Yarbrough Associate Professor of New Testament
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
B.A., Southwest Baptist College
M.A., Wheaton College Graduate School
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen http://www.solagroup.org/articles/historyofthebible/hotb_0003.html

[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The[/font][font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION is the latest translation to be issued from the press. It is too early to tell if it will be successful but initial sales have been very encouraging. The ESV claims to be "an essentially literal translation, emphasizing word-for-word precision." Thus it is to be considered a formal translation. The ESV also has an interesting history. It is an updating of the Revised Standard Version (see below). The Revised Standard Version has never been accepted by the evangelical community because of its association with the World Council of Churches and translations that appear to deny the virgin birth of Christ. While the RSV has not been popular among Evangelicals in the United States, it has been received with a greater appreciation in England. [/font]

[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The strength of the English Standard Version is its combination of formal adherence to the text of Scripture and beauty of language. It is also in a position to benefit from the controversy surrounding the gender inclusive policies being followed by Today’s New International Version. In addition there appears to be a waning of interest in the functional or dynamic equivalence theory of translation. If one is looking for a balanced combination of scholarship in translation and fluency of language, one might consider this version. [/font]

[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The parent to the English Standard Version was the REVISED STANDARD VERSION. First published in 1946 in the New Testament and 1952 in the Old Testament, it has received mixed reviews. Several unfortunate translations of key verses have tainted it with charges of liberalism and the fact that the copyright is owned by the National Council of Churches has reinforced the negative image. This is rather unfortunate because, on balance, the version is an admirable attempt to balance fidelity of translation in a formal manner and beauty of language. [/font]

[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Revised Standard Version has been updated to include changes in the text base and to update language. This version has also received criticism for its inclusion of the Apocrypha that makes it more acceptable in ecumenical circles and gender inclusive language. Despite these criticisms, many are convinced that this version is the most up to date in biblical scholarship.[/font]

"The English Standard Version stands in the classic mainstream of English Bible translations over the past half-millennium." The ESV, edited by James I. Packer, is an update and conservative revision of the traditional Revised Standard Version. (The RSV was replaced by the New RSV in 1989 and is no longer published. The NRSV moved toward "functional equivalence" and use of inclusive language to clarify references that intend both men and women.)
http://www.vecbs.org/society/bible.html

Does Crossway pay royalties to anyone for use of the ESV text?

No. Crossway owns the rights to the text.
http://www.gnpcb.org/page/esv.faq

So, I guess the ESV is the stepchild of the RSV but can anyone tell me if the WCC is getting a kick back for the use of the RSV base text?
 
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Imblessed

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Elderone

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JM

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Sorry it wasn't the WCC it is the NCC. I listened to a sermon the other day from sermonaudio and the minister said it can be found on the copyright page.

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcncc49.htm

I don't have a copy of the ESV, can someone take a look for me?









The following paragraphs from WORLD magazine (June 5, 1999) reveal the interesting circumstances in which the ESV was conceived:
The English Standard Version (ESV), announced in February by Crossway Books, had its roots in discussions that took place before the May 1997 meeting called by James Dobson at Focus on the Family headquarters to resolve the inclusive NIV issue.





The night prior to the meeting, critics of regendered language gathered in a Colorado Springs hotel room to discuss the next day's strategy. During the course of the evening it became clear their concerns with the NIV extended beyond gender issues. The group discussed the merits of the Revised Standard Version, first published in 1952 by the National Council of Churches and recently replaced by the New Revised Standard Version, a regendered update.

Some months later, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School professor Wayne Grudem and Crossway President Lane Dennis entered into negotiations with the National Council of Churches to use the 1971 revision of the Revised Standard Version as the basis for a new translation. An agreement was reached in September 1998 allowing translators freedom to modify the original text of the RSV as necessary to rid it of de-Christianing translation choices.








Ps: I found this on the ESV website:
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (ESV) is adapted from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, copyright Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. All rights reserved.

 
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Elderone

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Street Preacher said:
Sorry it wasn't the WCC it is the NCC.


After seeing the above I remembered reading something about the NCC and asked a very reliable source where to find information on them. His response was, "I have little use for the NCC and research will be a waste of your time." So it would appear it is 6 of 1, half a dozen of another to paying royalties to not very worthwhile organizations.


With that said, however, mine is in the mail.
 
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Knight

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The ESV is my primary translation.

There is nothing on the copyright page that in any way indicates that the sale of this translation supports the NCC.

Even if this were the case, which it is not, this is a genetic fallacy to conclude that the translation is corrupt based soley on who is supported by the sale of it. The translation should be judged by its own merit.
 
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