Engagement: operational definition

[invisiblebabe]

How would you define engagement, and what are the bare minimum requirements in order for two people to be classified as engaged?

 

[invisiblebabe]

The committment and promise to one another (a ring is not necessary is what I'm saying). And the *completion* of the dating process. At the time of engagement, you should no longer be attempting to "get to know each other". And the engagement should be made at the commencement of the time when you will begin serious planning for the wedding, not as a simple title that you give yourselves to try and feel more "committed". The committment comes from each other and not from the title you give yourself.

Things engagement is not: a simple extension of the dating process, a security blanket (a way to try and ensure your significant other stays with you, often done out of fear of losing your partner if you dont "up the committment level), a title you just slap on without discussing (surprise proposals may appeal to some people, but I believe you should have EXTENSIVELY discussed engagement and marriage before the actual event comes.. a mutual decision to become engaged would be good. Its not about show, its about the committment.. rings and exotic locations and pretty poems are not what its about)..

Its also not "something we'll do in the mean time" while waiting for a better/future time to truly start planning the wedding. You get engaged? plan the wedding! Have a date. Book the venue. It is a serious committment so make serious plans right from the start.

~ ~

Yes, I agree with you.

Are you also implying that an "official proposal" is not necessary to constitute an engagement, so long as the two people have agreed to marry on x date?

 

[FaithfulServant]

The point where you have pledged to be the others husband or wife, and are planning the wedding. (Or if you're not going to have a wedding ceremony, you are picking out a day to go to the courthouse or whatever is necessary )

 

[MagicStar723]

The committment and promise to one another (a ring is not necessary is what I'm saying). And the *completion* of the dating process. At the time of engagement, you should no longer be attempting to "get to know each other". And the engagement should be made at the commencement of the time when you will begin serious planning for the wedding, not as a simple title that you give yourselves to try and feel more "committed". The committment comes from each other and not from the title you give yourself.

Things engagement is not: a simple extension of the dating process, a security blanket (a way to try and ensure your significant other stays with you, often done out of fear of losing your partner if you dont "up the committment level), a title you just slap on without discussing (surprise proposals may appeal to some people, but I believe you should have EXTENSIVELY discussed engagement and marriage before the actual event comes.. a mutual decision to become engaged would be good. Its not about show, its about the committment.. rings and exotic locations and pretty poems are not what its about)..

Its also not "something we'll do in the mean time" while waiting for a better/future time to truly start planning the wedding. You get engaged? plan the wedding! Have a date. Book the venue. It is a serious committment so make serious plans right from the start.

~ ~

Great explanation!

 

[InTheFlame]

A serious mutual commitment to get married, and a fairly well-defined timeframe. Proposal? Ho-hum. As long as it has been talked through sensibly.

 

[invisiblebabe]

no no, official proposal = good, its just that I don't believe in engagement rings. I should have added to that post that there should be an ANNOUNCEMENT of some sort, lol

I don't believe that people who are keeping a secret engagement from their family and friends or what not are truly ready to be married.. I've seen that before.

~ ~

Right, I agree that outside society must know of the couple's intentions to get married.

Do you believe an official proposal is absolutely essential, or merely a good thing that accompanies an engagement?

I think rings are nice, but certainly not necessary. Of course, I am a jewelry freak, so I happen to value rings quite a bit

 

[invisiblebabe]

The point where you have pledged to be the others husband or wife, and are planning the wedding. (Or if you're not going to have a wedding ceremony, you are picking out a day to go to the courthouse or whatever is necessary )

Planning the wedding.... hmm. Do arrangements have to concretely be made... or is it enough to say "We know where we want to have it, and here is where we will book it. We know who we want to be bridesmaids/groomsmen, and we are asking them." ?

 

[InTheFlame]

Planning the wedding.... hmm. Do arrangements have to concretely be made... or is it enough to say "We know where we want to have it, and here is where we will book it. We know who we want to be bridesmaids/groomsmen, and we are asking them." ?

I think this is getting a bit nitpicky!

 

[invisiblebabe]

Well, in this statement we are getting closer and closer and closer to "Do you need a wedding ceremony or contract to be married". Its similar mainly because, what you are asking is, does anyone else have to know other than the two people declaring their intention to marry before themselves and God.

hmm. I think that if you didn't tell your family and friends who care about you, you are essentially trying to hide something and are lying by omission. If you have nothing to hide and truly love each other you will WANT to share your excitement and joy with others..

Is it essential to the point where it is simply not an engagement if you don't announce it? No probably not THAT essential. But I would be severely suspiscious. Its a very serious and joyful occasion and if you are at a place in your life where you have to hide it from others then perhaps that is a sign that engagement is not meant for you at this time.

And I agree with the previous poster, we're getting really nitpicky here lol. I think there is no perfect recipe for an engagement, more or less there are some overall principles you should be keeping at heart rather than having a million little details to check off on a list..

I've said it a thousand times: if you have to ask "should I really be doing this/doing things like this", you are probably trying to justify something you shouldn't be doing, trying to find a loophole. Why nitpick about it? Just announce it, be joyful, celebrate with family and friends.. who cares if you COULD get away with NOT telling them. Why would you?

~ ~

I agree with you about the announcement thing. There must be some sort of announcement about the couple's intentions to get married.... other people must know and recognition by society is something that I would deem necessary for qualification as an engagement.

You misread my question though.... I wasn't asking about the announcement. I was just questioning whether you think a formal proposal is absolutely necessary. The announcement thing didnt have anything to do with it

And this is for pure theoretical purposes... it doesn't apply to my current relationship at all

 

[invisiblebabe]

oh



ya I didn't think it was about you I was just makin a general statement hehe

When I said "you" it was more of a "whoever is in the situation" kinda you I hate the internet.. lol

~ ~

hehehe

 

[Emma!]

And this is for pure theoretical purposes... it doesn't apply to my current relationship at all

I thought you were trying to assess if you were 'engaged' or not!!

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Engaged = planning on marriage, with setting a reasonable date as the first priority.

Engagement is the time between agreeing to marry and being able to organize the ceremony.

Otherwise, its just an attempt to keep someone around for a while longer without committing to anything.

 

[LadyBird]

I believe that a couple should ONLY be engaged if they are ready to be married. I don't believe that the engagement period is to get to know each other better...sorry, but I think that is for the dating part.

Being engaged, for me at least, means that I am planning my wedding. And I think a couple should only be engaged for as long as it takes to plan the wedding...excuse me, it doesn't take 2 years to plan a wedding.

And one more thing. I think this is a good way in looking at whether you are ready to be engaged: If all the wedding preparations were made, would you be ready to get married today?

Engaged = planning on marriage, with setting a reasonable date as the first priority.

Engagement is the time between agreeing to marry and being able to organize the ceremony.

Otherwise, its just an attempt to keep someone around for a while longer without committing to anything.

I like the last part of your post Mr. Cheese. I agree.

 

[invisiblebabe]

I thought you were trying to assess if you were 'engaged' or not!!

*laugh*

We've been telling people about our wedding date since Feb or March, and getting married in 35 days... I would certainly hope we are engaged.

 

[MrsSeptemberPenguin]

The committment and promise to one another (a ring is not necessary is what I'm saying). And the *completion* of the dating process. At the time of engagement, you should no longer be attempting to "get to know each other". And the engagement should be made at the commencement of the time when you will begin serious planning for the wedding, not as a simple title that you give yourselves to try and feel more "committed". The committment comes from each other and not from the title you give yourself.

Things engagement is not: a simple extension of the dating process, a security blanket (a way to try and ensure your significant other stays with you, often done out of fear of losing your partner if you dont "up the committment level), a title you just slap on without discussing (surprise proposals may appeal to some people, but I believe you should have EXTENSIVELY discussed engagement and marriage before the actual event comes.. a mutual decision to become engaged would be good. Its not about show, its about the committment.. rings and exotic locations and pretty poems are not what its about)..

Its also not "something we'll do in the mean time" while waiting for a better/future time to truly start planning the wedding. You get engaged? plan the wedding! Have a date. Book the venue. It is a serious committment so make serious plans right from the start.

~ ~

Very Good! I agree!

 

[Inperfected]

I personally think that the date does not "have" to be set immediately after the engagement. It's the tiem to start talking about what you want at the seremony, and quickly leading to making decisions... But i think the date does not always have to be the first thing you do. Sometimes, the general time of year, and things you want/don't want, can mean a lot as well... For me i'd love to go sailing on my honeymoon... (i have a yacht i can get hold of) and sailing in the wet season is yukky (it's not a covered one)

So yeah, it's definately a commitment of sooner rather than later, but doesn't have to be "within" 3 months type of 'soon'.

 

[Maeyken]

I personally think that the date does not "have" to be set immediately after the engagement. It's the tiem to start talking about what you want at the seremony, and quickly leading to making decisions... But i think the date does not always have to be the first thing you do. Sometimes, the general time of year, and things you want/don't want, can mean a lot as well... For me i'd love to go sailing on my honeymoon... (i have a yacht i can get hold of) and sailing in the wet season is yukky (it's not a covered one)

So yeah, it's definately a commitment of sooner rather than later, but doesn't have to be "within" 3 months type of 'soon'.

I agree about the setting the date thing. I think there's a lot of planning that has to happen before choosing a specific date. In my sister's case, they've been engaged 7 months and haven't set a definite date yet (but their total engagement will be 20 months)... but they were definitely engaged in Dec.

I think to me, engagement involves the official proposal with the ring, and telling other people that you are engaged. I suppose it could happen without the ring, but the proposal and the telling people parts are non-negotiable to me!

 

[invisiblebabe]

In my sister's case, they've been engaged 7 months and haven't set a definite date yet (but their total engagement will be 20 months)... but they were definitely engaged in Dec.

In this case, it sounds like they set a specific time frame/month....it is only the exact date that is not set yet. To me, that also qualifies as engagement... when I said a specific date was required, I more meant that "We're getting married... someday" didn't qualify.

I think to me, engagement involves the official proposal with the ring, and telling other people that you are engaged. I suppose it could happen without the ring, but the proposal and the telling people parts are non-negotiable to me!

I am curious: why is the proposal non-negotiable, assuming the two people have agreed they want to marry and will marry?

I think proposals are more of a cultural/traditional thing, as are the rings. I'd like to know why you value a proposal so.

 

[Inperfected]

Mmm i think a proposal is important, because it's the "yes" to it all. I also think there should be relationship discussion before it, so you move up to the point of him proposing. It's also a good first leadership step for him to take, as it involves a risk and that.