Endurance Of The Ten Commandments (incl. Sabbath)

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Sabbath on a stone[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] the sabbath [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]LORD thy God: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]in it[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]aughter, thy [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ithin thy gates: For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]in[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]hat in them [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and rested the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:9- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11[/FONT]


Here we are looking beyond a sabbath feast of Lev 23:1-3 / Ezek 46:1-6. We're talking of the Sabbath that was on the tablets.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Non of the Ten Commandments served as shadows that lost their [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ignificance or were fulfilled in [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Christ, so we can also expect the Sabbath on the Decalogue to be binding today.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]There is an evidence that they continued to flourish in the new testament [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]as an institution [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]not replaced nor fulfilled in Jesus (Jam 2:10-11; Rev [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]14:12). [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Since we see that other of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ten Commandments were [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]binding in the new testament, so should we expect the same [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]with the [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sabbath Commandment (Fourth Commandment).[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]point,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] he is guilty of all.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For he that said, Do not [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], said also, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Do not kill[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. Now if [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]thou commit no [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]law.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]12[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So speak ye, and so do, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]as [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]they that shall be judged by the law [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]liberty[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” Jam 2:10-12[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
“Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath
fulfilled the law.9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. ” Rom 13:8-10

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]When a clear evidence of the ten commandments exists in the new testament, why do [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]people want to target out the Sabbath, the Fourth Commandment ?[/FONT]​

 

[Cribstyl]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Sabbath on a stone[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] the sabbath [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]LORD thy God: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]in it[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]aughter, thy [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ithin thy gates: For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]in[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]hat in them [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and rested the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:9- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11[/FONT]


Here we are looking beyond a sabbath feast of Lev 23:1-3 / Ezek 46:1-6. We're talking of the Sabbath that was on the tablets.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Non of the Ten Commandments served as shadows that lost their [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ignificance or were fulfilled in [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Christ, so we can also expect the Sabbath on the Decalogue to be binding today.[/FONT]

With all due respects.

When commentaries play their own tunes, believers sometimes say "Amen" and adopt statements rather than biblical truths.

Thank God that the critical questions are asked about the law in the scriptures.
Some SDA member look for ways to ignor what is written and adopt what is reasoned.
NIV - Gal 3:19 -What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
The law was added...Not given in creation. Moses was the mediator between man and God.


Gal 3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

There is nothing wrong with the law. It is perfect, it is righteous. There is something wrong in men, we're sinful.
The law condemns us, it accuses us, it imparts judgment, it does not give life because men are sinful and No man can meet it's demands.


Gal 3:22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

The bible is clear that all men sin and are guilty, but God's new way according to the scriptures, is through faith. Does that mean we're free to sin? NO.
It means that God has adopted us as His children as we follow Him. God is Holy, so be ye Holy.
Being created in His image was always enough to know that sin is works of darkness.

NO!! the law was not given in creation

Gal 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
Those who were God's family were circumcized as Jews or procylites and under the law. When the doctrines of faith is preached Gentiles were invited because Jesus died to restore all mankind to God. This fulfilled God's promise to Abraham about all the families of the earth would be bless through him. Gen 12:3

Gal 3:24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[fn8] that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Hello!!!!???? Is anybody home?? Faith make us sons, not anythingelse we do can change that. The law makes us slaves to die. We should act, live and follow those whom the Holy Spirit put in place to teach us.

Christ said:

Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]There is an evidence that they continued to flourish in the new testament [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]as an institution [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]not replaced nor fulfilled in Jesus (Jam 2:10-11; Rev [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]14:12). [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Since we see that other of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ten Commandments were [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]binding in the new testament, so should we expect the same [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]with the [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sabbath Commandment (Fourth Commandment).[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]point,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] he is guilty of all.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For he that said, Do not [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], said also, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Do not kill[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. Now if [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]thou commit no [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]law.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]12[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So speak ye, and so do, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]as [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]they that shall be judged by the law [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]liberty[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” Jam 2:10-12[/FONT]

“Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath
fulfilled the law.9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. ” Rom 13:8-10

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]When a clear evidence of the ten commandments exists in the new testament, why do [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]people want to target out the Sabbath, the Fourth Commandment ?[/FONT]​

My heart cries out for my SDA brothers and sister, because of how they allow heart touching commentary to lead them, rather than biblical facts.
The sabbath school lessons do not stay in context with scriptural integrity, they're design to fit a lesson plan that uses the bible to confirm commentaries, rather than the prophets and apostles account in the context they're witten.

In Brotherhood and love
CRIB

 

[StormyOne]

The law was not given so that attempts would be made to keep "the law." Paul makes that clear in his letter to the Galatians.... my question would be why do some exalt the 4th commandment to the exclusion of the other nine? Or suggest that if people observe the 4th commandment then that is the only thing that matters?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The law was not given so that attempts would be made to keep "the law." Paul makes that clear in his letter to the Galatians.... my question would be why do some exalt the 4th commandment to the exclusion of the other nine? Or suggest that if people observe the 4th commandment then that is the only thing that matters?

You ask some good questions. In light of your question regarding exalting the fourth, consider the following:

"Elder Bates was resting upon Saturday, the seventh day of the week, and he urged it upon our attention as the true Sabbath. I did not feel its importance, and thought that he erred in dwelling upon the fourth commandment more than upon the other nine. But the Lord gave me a view of the heavenly sanctuary. The temple of God was opened in heaven, and I was shown the ark of God covered with the mercy seat. Two angels stood one at either end of the ark with their wings spread over the mercy seat and their faces turned toward it. This, my accompanying angel informed me, represented all the heavenly hosts looking with reverential awe toward the law of God ;which had been written by the finger of God. Jesus raised the cover of the ark, and I beheld the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written. I was amazed as I saw the fourth commandment in the very center of the ten precepts with a soft halo of light encircling it. Said the angel, 'It is the only one of the ten which defines the living God who created the heavens and the earth and all things that are there­in."' Life Sketches, pgs. 95 and 96.
​

For me, a relavant question relates to the prevailing idea within SDAism that the law is eternal. I just haven't found a compelling reason to reach that same conclusion.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

DND: [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]None of the Ten Commandments served as shadows that lost their [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ignificance or were fulfilled in [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Christ[/FONT]

[/FONT]

Please provide the basis for this statement. How do you view Hebrews 10:1 and 2 Corinthians 3?

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

People dont want commentaries that overpowers the bible with their objectivitly. They want to commentaries that gives understanding to the word of God.

Romans is one complete letter that is designed to explain the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

An outline of the content teaches us;
Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, it came unto the Jews first, then unto the Gentiles....(reason is because God promised the Jews a new covenant, but kept secret that all other nations would also become heirs with the circumcision)

Rom 1:17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The letter to the Romans explains that sin as all unrighteousness.

The letter to the Romans explains Rom 3:21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (from now on, being made right with God is offically made known, it has nothing to do with keeping laws, the law and the prophet said this would be so.)

The letter to the Romans explains that sin was in the world before the law



It's God that called the mixture of the nations (circumcision and uncircumcision to become one new people. God did not calls us to become Jews.Eph 2:4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
Eph 2:5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions–it is by grace you have been saved.
Eph 2:6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–
Eph 2:9not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)–
Eph 2:12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. (some people want to claim that mixed multitudes were given the law, when text say they were excluded as strangers.)
Eph 2:13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
Eph 2:15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Eph 2:16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Eph 2:17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Eph 2:19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,
Eph 2:20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
Eph 2:21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

SDA argue that these text addresses only part of the law that's now done away with. But how can gentiles be guilty of ceremonially laws that they were never given?
It appears without question that their trangressions were "Sins" unrighteous acts committed against the image of God...("Holiness, righteousness) in which they were created.

CRIB

 

[dragNdrop]

We can argue all we want on why and when the law came or it being a shadow, etc. The bottom line is this:

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE OTHER OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE STILL BINDING.

"Jas 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."


WHY THEN DO WE ASSUME THE 4TH COMMANDMENT IS NO LONGER BINDING ?

 

[ricker]

We can argue all we want on why and when the law came or it being a shadow, etc. The bottom line is this:

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE OTHER OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE STILL BINDING.

"Jas 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."


WHY THEN DO WE ASSUME THE 4TH COMMANDMENT IS NO LONGER BINDING ?

Because it was a sign given only to the nation of Israel. It is a covenant given only to the nation of Israel. It is ceremonial by nature. It is never commanded to the new Christian church or Gentiles. "Do not kill", or "love God" isn't a sign given to a nation.


Exodus 31:
12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "

 

[Cribstyl]

We can argue all we want on why and when the law came or it being a shadow, etc. The bottom line is this:

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE OTHER OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE STILL BINDING.

"Jas 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."


WHY THEN DO WE ASSUME THE 4TH COMMANDMENT IS NO LONGER BINDING ?

First of all, the royal law is one commandment...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself......
The law of liberty are 2commandments,.... to Love God and love your neighbor.
James says, live and act as if you'll be judged by the law of liberty. James did not say that you're under the law must keep the sabbath.


Somehow because you see some commandment itemized, you take liberty to say that they're still binding, which means sabbath is still binding.

The fact that James and other apostles continued in leading those of the circumcision meant that they kept the laws and sabbath.Gal 2:9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

The question is what did they teach to Gentile christains?
Christian doctrines are not formulated from human reasoning, they are found line upon line.


CRIB

 

[dragNdrop]

"If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as
transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and
yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do
not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no
adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. ~ Jam 2:8-12

Firstly James commend those who keep 'the royal law' by stating that 'ye do well' [v9].

Secondly James clearly shows the law is binding by saying 'For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.'.

CribStyl "James did not say that you're under the law must keep the sabbath."

Why would James say that we would be judged by the law we are not liable to ? It does not make sense ?

 

[Cribstyl]

Why would James say that we would be judged by the law we are not liable to ? It does not make sense ?

You could be mistaken as to what the law of liberty is.

The Sin of Partiality

1 My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism.
2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes,
3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,”
4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?
7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well.




9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.


13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.


The text tells us directly in verse 8 if we love our neighbor as our self we're doing the right thing. This is the royal law..(you better ask somebody)

verse 9 tells us that showing favortism breaks the royal law and make you a law breaker.
verse 10 explains how any slight of commandment breaking means the law has been broken.

The text tells us directly in verse 12 we'll be judged by the law of liberty.

The purpose for the commandments itemized was to illustrate that any sin make you guilty of breaking the law. and so favortism make you guilty of breaking the law of liberty and the royal law.

CRIB

 

[StormyOne]

well said Crib.....

 

[dragNdrop]

Crib

I honestly do not understand your point. In your last point you seem to agree with me. We both agree that law still exists and therefore we're liable.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Crib

I honestly do not understand your point. In your last point you seem to agree with me. We both agree that law still exists and therefore we're liable.

Upon defining what is meant by "the law," we may discover that you and Crib have entirely different views on the subject.

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib

I honestly do not understand your point. In your last point you seem to agree with me. We both agree that law still exists and therefore we're liable.

Im not surprised that you miss my point. That's why I post the texts. My point was the highlighted texts of James is commanding what we should follow.

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well.

12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
James is saying that we're under the law of liberty, which commands us to love God and each other. His 13 verse explanation in James 2:1-13 is to prove that showing favortism breaks the law of love the same way that breaking a commandment make you guilty of breaking the law.

Those who disagree need to read Chapter 1 and see that James is talking about "the word of truth,"and to be "firstfruits," Salvation is by a faith that is tested, and "true religion is helping the sick and widows.


There is a major difference between the ten commandment and the commandments "to love". The ten commandment can be fulfilled if you lock yourself in your house. The law of love compells you to get out of your house or you're not fulfilling any of the commandments to love.

It is true that the ten is fulfilled by the two but the two is not fulfilled by the ten.

So if God says keep the two then the 10 is covered.

CRIB

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It is true that the ten is fulfilled by the two but the two is not fulfilled by the ten.

A thought provoking statement. I agree. I suspect that DND does not (DND, please let me know if I've misunderstood).

BFA

 

[dragNdrop]

Hi Grid and the guys. Grid, ok I think I hear your argument now. However
it is weak.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom 13:9-10

I've cited the above passages to illustrate that is love man will compel us to fulfill the law including the ten commandments listed above.

My argument is: Since we have a clear evidence that love for man and for God compels us to keep the law (incl. Ten Commandments) as seen on Rom 13 and James 2, on what grounds do we exclude a Fourth (Sabbath) Command ? In other words, would it not be expresive of our love for God in taking a time off to spend with him ?

Until we can conclusively answer this question, we a bound to keep the Sabbath. Do you know that Dr Dez Ford keeps the Sabbath, though he has left the 1844 doctrine ?
Mmm!

 

[visionary]

NIV - Gal 3:19 -What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
The law was added...Not given in creation. Moses was the mediator between man and God.

The laws added were those on how transgression of the eternal laws would be handled... aka mediation.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom 13:9-10

So if we love, what need have we of the ten? By loving, we have fulfilled the ten.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

What does John 14 say about the commandments we are to keep?

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."
​

There is nothing in John 14 about sabbath keeping.

I've cited the above passages to illustrate that is love man will compel us to fulfill the law including the ten commandments listed above.

Once a requirement is fully met (i.e. "fulfilled"), why must we continue to fully meet it. Do you pay your annual income tax over and over and over every week?

My argument is: Since we have a clear evidence that love for man and for God compels us to keep the law (incl. Ten Commandments) as seen on Rom 13 and James 2, on what grounds do we exclude a Fourth (Sabbath) Command ?

The problems is that the evidence that you claim is clear does not in fact support your conclusion. Romans 13 is clear--he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. James 2 is also clear--you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture when you LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

Galatians 3 is also clear. The law was added 430 years after Abraham and only until the Seed had come.

Galatians 4 is also clear. Paul labored in vain for those who observe elemental things such as days and months and seasons and years. Hagar represents the covenant that was from Sinai and God already gave the command to get rid of the slave woman.

Romans 7 is also clear. You were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that you might bear fruit for God.

In other words, would it not be expresive of our love for God in taking a time off to spend with him ?

The sabbath certainly could be expressive of our love if our intent is to take time to spend with God. In fact, I find it beneficial to express my love for God by spending time with Him every day. I find no Biblical evidence that I should worship God during only one day out of seven.

It is possible that the sabbath is not expressive of our love if we view Saturday church attendance (and the boredom that follows it) as our ticket into Heaven.

Until we can conclusively answer this question, we a bound to keep the Sabbath.

I can't answer the question for you. If the sabbath is a benefit to you, I'm glad for it. The sabbath is not a question that is burning in my mind.

Do you know that Dr Dez Ford keeps the Sabbath, though he has left the 1844 doctrine ?

What is the relevance? Dr. Ford is another human who is free to worship God in the manner that he sees fit. As are you. As am I.

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

Hi Grid and the guys. Grid, ok I think I hear your argument now. However
it is weak.

Grid??? who is Grid? (hmmm)

Talking about weak argument, have you counted how many texts say" we're not under the law"?
My argument are always to present texts for my argument or expose fact from your presented texts, by discussing what I understand is meant within the context of the word of God.
How is that weak?

Your crafty threads and arguments that say; "we're under the law, it is a creation ordinance".

Text say. God rested because He ended His work. but your arguments are that, God gave men sabbath in creation. Whose arguments are weak?


The text that you present to support your beliefs are often isolate text with keywords. When the context is presented you run to another argument. Why dont you stand still and prove just 1 of your arguments.

.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom 13:9-10

I've cited the above passages to illustrate that is love man will compel us to fulfill the law including the ten commandments listed above.

Here we go again.......... Why did you post that text from John 14:15 and made no comment? Yep, that's the "keyword" technique

Because Jesus say "keep my commandments" rather than "keep the commandments," you should find what Christ is saying are His commandment. Are the commandments itemized in the chapter?
Christ explains in the context that those who love Him keeps the word that He spoke.

Jhn 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jhn 14:24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

My argument is: Since we have a clear evidence that love for man and for God compels us to keep the law (incl. Ten Commandments) as seen on Rom 13 and James 2, on what grounds do we exclude a Fourth (Sabbath) Command ? In other words, would it not be expresive of our love for God in taking a time off to spend with him ?

Until we can conclusively answer this question, we a bound to keep the Sabbath. Do you know that Dr Dez Ford keeps the Sabbath, though he has left the 1844 doctrine ?
Mmm!

Your evidence is suspect.
The text says....love is the fulfilling of the law not "love for man and God compels us to keep the law." So your facts questionable at best.

Respectfully
CRIB