"Endless" Suffering... why does it exist?

[whydoesithavetobethisway]

The thing that puzzles me is: suffering in this world. I've heard and read about this topic many times, and from my understanding, the reason we suffer is to help strengthen our faith and bring us closer to God. I get that. But, what has puzzled me for so long and the question that has kept me up many nights is: Why do some people have to suffer throughout their ENTIRE lives? Whether it be physically or mentally, why is it? Lets say that someone is born with a deformity, they are born without arms or something of the sort. I know we couldn't guess the will of God for someones life, but why would God put one of his children through all of that pain? Or lets say that someone is very unfortunate at a very young age, is in a car crash, and their face becomes badly scarred and remains so throughout his or her life. Things such as those can be both physically and mentally crippling. I know that people in these situations are advised to "toughen up," to "overcome" these adversities and become a symbol of strength... but some people just can't do that. Some people just can't find it within themselves or anywhere else, and these people live out their lives in obscurity. What do you think God expects from these people? Why would he put such large indestructible obstacles in someones life, obstacles that must be scaled and overcome each and everyday?

Why must such suffering exist? And why, say, must a child be born into this world with horrible health, suffering from disease and things that were beyond his/her control, and even their parents control? Why must this child be born, suffer from illnesses for years, then die at a young age like 7, 8, or 9 for example? To send a message to their parents or others? To teach others a lesson of some sort? I'm sure God could find many other ways to do such a thing.



I've been a Christian for so long, but now I'm lost with these thoughts. My faith has been crumbling... and I just want to die. I don't want to live in such a dark world where people must experience these things, where people must suffer for so long, lose so much, and never get to experience so many amazing things that this world, that God, has to offer.

Why do you think God allows these things to happen?

 

[razeontherock]

Well your user name is certainly consistent with the topic! As one who lives a life of suffering, I look to Joni Ericson Tata as a role model. Are you familiar?

 

[drich0150]

The thing that puzzles me is: suffering in this world. I've heard and read about this topic many times, and from my understanding, the reason we suffer is to help strengthen our faith and bring us closer to God. I get that. But, what has puzzled me for so long and the question that has kept me up many nights is: Why do some people have to suffer throughout their ENTIRE lives? Whether it be physically or mentally, why is it? Lets say that someone is born with a deformity, they are born without arms or something of the sort. I know we couldn't guess the will of God for someones life, but why would God put one of his children through all of that pain? Or lets say that someone is very unfortunate at a very young age, is in a car crash, and their face becomes badly scarred and remains so throughout his or her life. Things such as those can be both physically and mentally crippling. I know that people in these situations are advised to "toughen up," to "overcome" these adversities and become a symbol of strength... but some people just can't do that. Some people just can't find it within themselves or anywhere else, and these people live out their lives in obscurity. What do you think God expects from these people? Why would he put such large indestructible obstacles in someones life, obstacles that must be scaled and overcome each and everyday?

You mistake a "Thorn" with suffering. Yes a Thorn can cause pain, and suffering but eventually the pain will subside. Then whether or not you choose to suffer or not, will be up to you.

See what Paul says about His thorn: 2Cor 12:
7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the (N)revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a (O)thorn in the flesh, a (P)messenger of Satan to [b]torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I implored the Lord (Q)three times that it might leave me. 9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for (R)power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather (S)boast [c]about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore (T)I am well content with weaknesses, with [d]insults, with (U)distresses, with (V)persecutions, with (W)difficulties, (X)for Christ’s sake; for (Y)when I am weak, then I am strong

Why must such suffering exist? And why, say, must a child be born into this world with horrible health, suffering from disease and things that were beyond his/her control, and even their parents control? Why must this child be born, suffer from illnesses for years, then die at a young age like 7, 8, or 9 for example? To send a message to their parents or others? To teach others a lesson of some sort? I'm sure God could find many other ways to do such a thing.

It depends on the message and the Heart of the one the message is being sent to..

I've been a Christian for so long, but now I'm lost with these thoughts. My faith has been crumbling... and I just want to die. I don't want to live in such a dark world where people must experience these things, where people must suffer for so long, lose so much, and never get to experience so many amazing things that this world, that God, has to offer.

Why do you think God allows these things to happen?

So we learn not to look to the "amazing things of this world" for solace.

It is in the intimate knowledge of pain and loss that we will ever be able to comprehend the value and Depth of the infinite Love that has been given us.

God must break those deeply and harshly, in order to be able to use them greatly. Why? So as Paul puts it: So, God's power in your life maybe perfected. God can only through you when you learn to step aside. The stronger the Heart/deeper the pride, the larger the thorn.. That is If you are to be used by God.

 

[aiki]

The thing that puzzles me is: suffering in this world. I've heard and read about this topic many times, and from my understanding, the reason we suffer is to help strengthen our faith and bring us closer to God.

Only in part. Much of our suffering is the inevitable result of sin (though not always necessarily our own). Suffering, or at least pain, has a protective element to it, also. Ask any leper if he thinks pain is a good thing and you might get an answer that surprises you. The destruction that leprosy causes to an infected person's body is the direct result of the absence of pain.

But, what has puzzled me for so long and the question that has kept me up many nights is: Why do some people have to suffer throughout their ENTIRE lives?

You make it sound like life here is all there is. The Bible indicates to us that there is an eternity of life waiting for us once our physical bodies die. Even if one suffers through eighty years of life on this planet, it will seem less than the blink of an eye in the context of eternity. God looks upon us and sees our lives stretching on forever; He puts our temporal suffering in its proper eternal context as we ought to. And when we do, we realize that what you describe as one's "entire life" is just a brief passing moment before real, eternal life begins. Even if this passing moment of life on this globe is filled with suffering, it will have an end. And when it does, it will fade away into insignificance before the wondrous delight of being forever in the presence of the Creator.

Lets say that someone is born with a deformity, they are born without arms or something of the sort. I know we couldn't guess the will of God for someones life, but why would God put one of his children through all of that pain?

Do you know anyone personally who has severe congenital deformities? They don't typically describe their lives as "full of pain." Human beings are incredibly adaptive - especially if a disabled state is all they have ever known. My wife works with such people every day and from what she has told me about how they see themselves I think they would resent the way you have described their existence above.

Or lets say that someone is very unfortunate at a very young age, is in a car crash, and their face becomes badly scarred and remains so throughout his or her life. Things such as those can be both physically and mentally crippling. I know that people in these situations are advised to "toughen up," to "overcome" these adversities and become a symbol of strength... but some people just can't do that.

They can if they will rely upon God's strength. He graciously offers to those who have had such an experience His grace, love and fellowship. If anyone can aid people who have been badly disfigured in coming to terms with their disfigurement and living beyond it well, it is God.

Some people just can't find it within themselves or anywhere else, and these people live out their lives in obscurity.

Why do you assume obscurity is a bad thing?

What do you think God expects from these people? Why would he put such large indestructible obstacles in someones life, obstacles that must be scaled and overcome each and everyday?

I think, at least in the examples you gave, that you may be over-emphasizing the negative nature of the obstacles that the deformed or disfigured face. If one climbs a difficult obstacle, one is exercised by doing so and thereby made stronger. If one continues to be exercised this way, the difficult obstacle becomes easier and easier to surmount until it is no obstacle at all. This is just how the disabled people my wife works with deal with life. Your sympathy would make them seem hard done by and victims of an unkind God, but that is not how they see themselves. The bitter obstacles you think they must endure every day are nothing more to them than normal living and they would be surprised (and maybe a bit irritated) if you suggested otherwise.

Why must such suffering exist? And why, say, must a child be born into this world with horrible health, suffering from disease and things that were beyond his/her control, and even their parents control? Why must this child be born, suffer from illnesses for years, then die at a young age like 7, 8, or 9 for example? To send a message to their parents or others? To teach others a lesson of some sort? I'm sure God could find many other ways to do such a thing.

Again, you must think, not in terms of time, but of eternity. If you do not, you will be unable to see how temporary and temporal your concerns actually are. God's view takes into account our eternal life and He deals with us accordingly. We get quite desperate when we think life here isn't wonderful or is going to be cut short. God laughs at our angst for He knows that an endless forever is prepared for us, which is far better than anything we can ever know while living here on planet Earth.

Selah.

 

[Emmy]

Dear whydoesithavetobethisway. We live in an imperfecty world, and it was not this way when God put us in charge of it. God made us in His image and we were Good. God also gave us His 10 Commandments, loving advice to us. God also gave us free will to choose to follow them, or ignore them, or even go against them. Jesus came down to Earth and He died for us, that we might live, and Jesus reconciled us to God, Jesus became our Saviour, and Jesus is the way back to God: in fact Jesus is The Way. In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus states an important fact: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is what God wants from us: freely given and no conditions made."
Here too, God shows His great Love for us, this imperfect world is not of God`s making, but God wants us to love and care for our neighbour. All we know and meet, friend or not friend, poor and often overlooked; we are all in God`s image, and God loves us all, and Jesus died for All. Go wants our love and care, Love with all our Beings for God our Heavenly Father, and love and care for our neighbour. How can we show God that we care? We start by treating all others, as we would love to be treated: kindly and filled with love and compassion, forgiveness rather than angry words and blame, and God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. God will also know that we love God, because we are following His Commandments to love. It might be strange at first, but Love is very catching and will become second nature, IF WE LET It. People will see our love and care, and many will join us. We will never know the difference Love will make, until we truly try. God will be with us, and who can be against us? I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[whydoesithavetobethisway]

Well your user name is certainly consistent with the topic! As one who lives a life of suffering, I look to Joni Ericson Tata as a role model. Are you familiar?

I wasn't until you helped me discover her! How she has found strength through Christ to live and cope with her disabilities is very inspirational. Thanks for directing me to her story.

You make it sound like life here is all there is. The Bible indicates to us that there is an eternity of life waiting for us once our physical bodies die. Even if one suffers through eighty years of life on this planet, it will seem less than the blink of an eye in the context of eternity. God looks upon us and sees our lives stretching on forever; He puts our temporal suffering in its proper eternal context as we ought to. And when we do, we realize that what you describe as one's "entire life" is just a brief passing moment before real, eternal life begins. Even if this passing moment of life on this globe is filled with suffering, it will have an end. And when it does, it will fade away into insignificance before the wondrous delight of being forever in the presence of the Creator.

So then what is the point of living here on Earth? Why did God put us here in the first place?

Do you know anyone personally who has severe congenital deformities? They don't typically describe their lives as "full of pain." Human beings are incredibly adaptive - especially if a disabled state is all they have ever known.

I was referring to the emotional and mental anguish more so than the physical.

Why do you assume obscurity is a bad thing?

For those who don't find the help they need, who don't know the Lord, who don't gain the strength to face the world, how much can truly be accomplished through living in a secluded state?

 

[Faulty]

Life is short.

Whenever I see the news and they are showing someone who they say is currently the oldest person alive, I can't help but think that every person who was alive on earth at their birth is now gone. All their joys, pains, aspirations, politics, lusts, wisdom, effort, whatever it was, are now all gone. All that remains of that world is each persons standing before God, and what they did concerning His Son. Exhale, and the world as we know it is gone, and so are we.

Truth is, people are prideful. Unfortunately, it takes our pain for us to turn to God. What unbeliever hasn't said something similar to God when in trouble, "Oh God, if you exist and get me out of this, I'll try to be a good person." It's the need that forces us to look outside ourselves, and unfortunately, for many people it's the only way to get their attention. Some suffering now is nothing compared to our need in eternity.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

According to Philip K Dick there is suffering here because the creator of this world is demented but Christ can rescue us from his grasp :

The Ten Major Principles of the Gnostic Revelation

From Exegesis, by Philip K. Dick

The Gnostic Christians of the second century believed that only a special revelation of knowledge rather than faith could save a person. The contents of this revelation could not be received empirically or derived a priori. They considered this special gnosis so valuable that it must be kept secret. Here are the ten major principles of the gnostic revelation:

1. The creator of this world is demented.
2. The world is not as it appears, in order to hide the evil in it, a delusive veil obscuring it and the deranged deity.
3. There is another, better realm of God, and all our efforts are to be directed toward
   1. returning there
   2. bringing it here
4. Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars.
5. Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor. We are in fact asleep, and in the hands of a dangerous magician disguised as a good god, the deranged creator deity. The bleakness, the evil and pain in this world, the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion.
6. You can pass from the delusional prison world into the peaceful kingdom if the True Good God places you under His grace and allows you to see reality through His eyes.
7. Christ gave, rather than received, revelation; he taught his followers how to enter the kingdom while still alive, where other mystery religions only bring about amnesis: knowledge of it at the "other time" in "the other realm," not here. He causes it to come here, and is the living agency to the Sole Good God (i.e. the Logos).
8. Probably the real, secret Christian church still exists, long underground, with the living Corpus Christi as its head or ruler, the members absorbed into it. Through participation in it they probably have vast, seemingly magical powers.
9. The division into "two times" (good and evil) and "two realms" (good and evil) will abruptly end with victory for the good time here, as the presently invisible kingdom separates and becomes visible. We cannot know the date.
10. During this time period we are on the sifting bridge being judged according to which power we give allegiance to, the deranged creator demiurge of this world or the One Good God and his kingdom, whom we know through Christ.

To know these ten principles of Gnostic Christianity is to court disaster.

 

[aiki]

So then what is the point of living here on Earth? Why did God put us here in the first place?

1. It is through the physical process of conception and birth that we humans come into existence. We could be brought into being as the angels are, I suppose, but then we wouldn't be human, would we? It seems, since this is how God has chosen to create us, that He wants humans, not more angels.
2. It is through the process of life here on Earth that we encounter God and choose to love Him - or not. This process of coming into fellowship with God is quite different than the experience of an angel, who, seeing God face to face, does not require faith in order to know Him. Apparently, God values our exercise of faith and our choosing to love Him even though we haven't ever seen Him over a more direct route to experiencing Him.
3. God originally intended a very different course to human existence. We see something of what He intended in the idyllic nature of Adam's time in Eden. When things went sour, God didn't respond by scrapping Creation and starting again, but, instead, set about demonstrating His power, love and holiness by redeeming humanity from sin and death. We can assume, then, that God felt it was more important to make this demonstration to us than to simply begin an entirely new creative project.
4. God does mitigate much of the suffering people face on this planet. He doesn't sit back, cold and uncaring, watching us as we squirm in helpless misery. No, God got right into the muck with us and shared in our suffering in an effort to reconcile us to Himself. And He has done more besides! Many are the tales of healing, physical and otherwise, that I have heard over the 40-plus years I've been in the Christian community.

I was referring to the emotional and mental anguish more so than the physical.

I see. Well, my comments hold true, regardless. We look from ourselves to the disabled and think they are so hard done by. But they don't necessarily feel this way. Some may endure anguish over their state, I suppose, but the many disabled folk my wife knows are quite content (or at least as content as the average able-bodied person generally is) with their condition.

For those who don't find the help they need, who don't know the Lord, who don't gain the strength to face the world, how much can truly be accomplished through living in a secluded state?

Not much, I'm afraid. But there is no one God cannot touch. The Bible teaches that we all have a basic awareness of God that we choose either to pursue or suppress. If someone hasn't tapped into God, it isn't because God has ordained it so, but because they have chosen to be cut off from Him.

Selah.

 

[dewba]

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD works out everything for his own ends--even the wicked for a day of disaster.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

According to Philip K Dick there is suffering here because the creator of this world is demented but Christ can rescue us from his grasp :

The Ten Major Principles of the Gnostic Revelation

From Exegesis, by Philip K. Dick

The Gnostic Christians of the second century believed that only a special revelation of knowledge rather than faith could save a person. The contents of this revelation could not be received empirically or derived a priori. They considered this special gnosis so valuable that it must be kept secret. Here are the ten major principles of the gnostic revelation:

1. The creator of this world is demented.
2. The world is not as it appears, in order to hide the evil in it, a delusive veil obscuring it and the deranged deity.
3. There is another, better realm of God, and all our efforts are to be directed toward
   1. returning there
   2. bringing it here
4. Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars.
5. Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor. We are in fact asleep, and in the hands of a dangerous magician disguised as a good god, the deranged creator deity. The bleakness, the evil and pain in this world, the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion.
6. You can pass from the delusional prison world into the peaceful kingdom if the True Good God places you under His grace and allows you to see reality through His eyes.
7. Christ gave, rather than received, revelation; he taught his followers how to enter the kingdom while still alive, where other mystery religions only bring about amnesis: knowledge of it at the "other time" in "the other realm," not here. He causes it to come here, and is the living agency to the Sole Good God (i.e. the Logos).
8. Probably the real, secret Christian church still exists, long underground, with the living Corpus Christi as its head or ruler, the members absorbed into it. Through participation in it they probably have vast, seemingly magical powers.
9. The division into "two times" (good and evil) and "two realms" (good and evil) will abruptly end with victory for the good time here, as the presently invisible kingdom separates and becomes visible. We cannot know the date.
10. During this time period we are on the sifting bridge being judged according to which power we give allegiance to, the deranged creator demiurge of this world or the One Good God and his kingdom, whom we know through Christ.

To know these ten principles of Gnostic Christianity is to court disaster.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm a huge Philip K Dick fan. I remember reading a short story of his years ago about this guy who discovers the true nature of God and he (God) really wasn't very pleasant. I was a Christian at the time I read the story but it really made me think. We tend to want to believe that God is good, but God, if he does exist, may very well be a malignant being beyond our comprehension. Of course, if God is NOT good, then I wouldn't want to worship such a being, no more than I would worship Stalin.

Why is there suffering in the world? Perhaps because God likes it that way.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

We tend to want to believe that God is good, but God, if he does exist, may very well be a malignant being beyond our comprehension. Of course, if God is NOT good, then I wouldn't want to worship such a being, no more than I would worship Stalin.

He makes a distinction between the creator of this world / the demiurge and God. It's only the being most people worship as God (Ialdabaoth / Samael) and who created the world of pain and suffering that he calls demented. The demiurge claims to be God and that there is no other but that's because he is ignorant of the Father. Sophia rebuked him when he made that claim and called him Samael or god of the blind.

This is a depiction of Ialdabaoth:

 

[GeordieTosh]

According to Philip K Dick there is suffering here because the creator of this world is demented but Christ can rescue us from his grasp :

The Ten Major Principles of the Gnostic Revelation

From Exegesis, by Philip K. Dick

The Gnostic Christians of the second century believed that only a special revelation of knowledge rather than faith could save a person. The contents of this revelation could not be received empirically or derived a priori.

I'm not sure I understood the full post, but it's interesting that it seems more 'Buddhist', than Christian.

Do you think there's any similarities?