Ending my Worthless Life

[Crosssword]

Well of course we have freewill, It's just that God also is beyond time and knows what will happen to us, what choices we will make, and if there an infinite number of realities based on our various choices then he knows all of them too.

God knew before the beginning of the world who would be his. We cannot even come to Jesus, except that we have been called of God. That we have the holy spirit with us to convict us to repent.

Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he may have mercy upon them."

The Lord died to forgive all sins, they who call on him are regenerating as new creatures to produce the fruit of the spirit. More importantly if you are not determined to do the will of God at all times then you will inevitably wind up doing the will of satan one way or another.

Thinking isn't bad as we are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. The latter is of far greater significance. Conformity is actually good when it's onto the image of Christ and his perfect ways.

Judas was the worst IMHO. The man got to be one of Jesus apostles, he was included in everything, he knew love and holiness. Yet he betrayed Jesus onto death. Jesus didn't need to be betrayed, he could have easily just continued until he was caught or allowed himself to be caught. He's the example of the kind of unforgivable apostate described in Hebrews 6:6. Someone who had it all and willfully opposed Jesus and all holiness.

 

[liars_paradox]

Well of course we have freewill, It's just that God also is beyond time and knows what will happen to us, what choices we will make, and if there an infinite number of realities based on our various choices then he knows all of them too.

God knew before the beginning of the world who would be his. We cannot even come to Jesus, except that we have been called of God. That we have the holy spirit with us to convict us to repent.

Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he may have mercy upon them."

The Lord died to forgive all sins, they who call on him are regenerating as new creatures to produce the fruit of the spirit. More importantly if you are not determined to do the will of God at all times then you will inevitably wind up doing the will of satan one way or another.

Thinking isn't bad as we are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. The latter is of far greater significance. Conformity is actually good when it's onto the image of Christ and his perfect ways.

Judas was the worst IMHO. The man got to be one of Jesus apostles, he was included in everything, he knew love and holiness. Yet he betrayed Jesus onto death. Jesus didn't need to be betrayed, he could have easily just continued until he was caught or allowed himself to be caught. He's the example of the kind of unforgivable apostate described in Hebrews 6:6. Someone who had it all and willfully opposed Jesus and all holiness.

I'm not the only one who argues this as it is the majority of churches (maybe not Christians) who support the idea of predestination. The bible does provide evidence for this argument - those who are saved often referred to as God's "elect" and it appears that God "choses" who will will be saved and who won't.

I did read Hebrews 6:6 and I think that I see what you mean. I do think that, however, this is said in a different context than what I was talking about. Even if we don't truly have free will, in our "world" we do and are still held accountable for our actions. It does appear that, however, God does still choses what will happen to us.

I think that when most people talk of free will, they really don't know that it's something that's really debated often. I remember reading in another forum about how one poster mentioned something about robots gaining free will one day, and having taken a course on automatons in college, I was like that's impossible. Machines will never be "unpredictable" like some people might think. The day that they become as smart as us means then that our understanding of things will be to the point that everything that you do can be predicted by somebody else.

This kind of reminds me of something that I learned in college, of these things called "nondeterministic automata" which are these mathematical "machines" which are supposed to be able to take this non-determined path to solving a problem. Initially, it was thought that they were actually different than their older counterparts, the deterministic automata, but later it was proven that all nondeterministic automata were in fact deterministic automata. Even though it seems that their paths were unique, in reality there was really one path that they would take and could be converted to deterministic form.

But, people are different from finite state machines however. With the current mathematical model that computers are modeled after, ie. the Turing Machine, there are some things that humans can do that humans have no understanding how they know how to this. It's really not a matter of computer engineering that's a roadblock for computer scientists to develop human-like AI but really a fundamental, mathematical issue that prevents human-like AI from ever being understandable.

I would say that it's a psychological issue as well, but not surprisingly the current models of the human mind are modeled after the same models that were used for computers. Initially, that's what the Turing Machine was supposed to be, the mathematical model of a human mind. But, eventually they found that some things that people can do were called Turing unsolvable - meaning that a Turing Machine would never get finished with the problem. The "Liar's Paradox" is one prime example of this.

But, back to the Bible, I do think that God predestines things for us. To say He doesn't is like saying that I, as a programmer, can write a program that doesn't do what I want (assuming that I did a good job of programming it). Similarly, if I wrote this program and it turned out that it was somehow harming people, either by causing nuclear power plants to fail or taking money from people's bank accounts and putting it into mine, then it would me - the creator of that program - that would be held responsible and not my program - my creation.

I think that it's probably more popular with Christians to think that God doesn't will for these things to happen since it might make us see God as possibly being immoral. It's hard to say since God can't commit sin, and it seems that this would be a contradiction of that fact. But, maybe it isn't. God might want us all to accept Him, but then He isn't weak, dumb, or powerless. And, He created each one of us, individually, knowing exactly what we would do. How can anyone rationally say that God doesn't will for our actions to happen Himself?

But, to let you know that this is something that's actually been discussed in Christian thought, I do have some articles that you can look at yourself which discusses the concept of Predeterminism vs. Free Will, arguing for Predeterminism.

Most churches, according to my research, reject the idea that salvation is ever decided upon by human beings. To say that the decision is our's is saying that salvation is taken out of God's hands, which they believe that the bible doesn't support. The following article compares 7 Christian denominations and their stances in the Free Will vs. Predeterminism debate:

• Anglican/Episcopal - "Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby ... he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen ... to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation ..." 39 Articles Anglican Communion
• Assembly of God - "And on the basis of His foreknowledge believers are chosen in Christ. Thus God in His sovereignty has provided the plan of salvation whereby all can be saved. In this plan man's will is taken into consideration. Salvation is available to "whosoever will." AG.org
• Baptist -"Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man ..." SBC
• Lutheran - "...we reject ... the doctrine that conversion is wrought not by the grace and power of God alone, but in part also by the co-operation of man himself ... or anything else whereby man's conversion and salvation is taken out of the gracious hands of God and made to depend on what man does or leaves undone. We reject also the doctrine that man is able to decide for conversion through "powers imparted by grace ..." LCMS
• Methodist - "The condition of man after the fall of Adam is such that he cannot turn and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and works, to faith, and calling upon God; wherefore we have no power to do good works ..." UMC
• Presbyterian - "There is nothing that we can do to earn God's favor. Rather, our salvation comes from God alone. We are able to choose God because God first chose us." PCUSA
• Roman Catholic - "God predestines no one to go to hell" Catechism - 1037 See also "Notion of Predestination" - CE

source:Christianity: Free Will vs. Predestination. Mary Fairchild (2011) About.com. Retrieved February 2, 2011.

The article really uses 6 Protestant denominations as a comparison of Christian beliefs, but I think that it's mostly just the Catholics who believe in Free Will and the majority of Protestants support the idea of Predestination. So, I'm not alone when I bring this up, even though it seems to me that Christians ever rarely do publicly argue this with other Christians.

The Bible teaches that there is no free will. Examining Exodus, Ecclesiastes 7, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, Acts 13, Romans 8, Roman 9, 2 Timothy, 2 Thessalonians, Titus 3:4-5 and Revelations, we see that God's plan overrides our free will; those that do good do the specific good that God predestined them to do, and all others are ruled by Satan because God sends "powerful delusions" to them. The Christian Bible frequently states that God creates our future and decides our fates, no matter what our own will is. It constantly denies that we have free will. Some of the foremost Christians in history have taught that there is no free will, including St. Augustine (one of the four great founders of Western Christianity1), Martin Luther (founder of Protestantism) and John Calvin.

source: Biblical Christianity Denies Free Will. Crabtree (2005). Retrieved February 2, 2011.

I do have an article at the following link, which does explain how it might be possible for us to still have "free will", even with an all-knowing God as our creator: Free Will in Christianity

So, the issue is debatable. However, there is strong evidence, based on scripture, which supports the idea that God predetermines everything for us. And, I think that most churches support predeterminism because the evidence arguing against Free Will, according to scripture, is much stronger than the arguing for it.

This might be why Christians shouldn't condemn other people for their wicked behavior or for their disbelief. It's not like any of us are special because we somehow chose to do the right things or chose to have God into our lives. It seems that only by God's grace and not of our own will that any of us are ever saved.

 

[Crosssword]

The lord made me to be a deep and passionate man of God and of family, but to say things didn't take a turn for the worse is a slap in the face.

I am one whose "love waxed cold due to iniquity being everywhere." and we all have our faults to overcome.

I didn't like where I was. I found it to be lonely, rejecting, contrived, impossible, confusing, greedy, and vain.

So I just concluded I was a prisoner here. I went into voluntary exile for my faith, when I could have some purpose and communion perhaps. I endured this lonely solitude, this despair, I did not go after money, but I also didn't make a life for myself.

I had lots of reasons. I suffered IBS all throughout school, having many sick days, insomnia, OCD, emotionally disabled, depression, and hyperactivity. I used to take riddilin, but I didn't like how it made me feel. It seemed to kill my inner fire, my inner joy, my wild imagination.

I was extremely paranoid of society, and not trusting of government. I mourned this world whenever I saw iniquity, though I fell into some of my own, sorrow has that effect at times.

Alas, I am renewed. Full of light, full of passion that will not be quenched. Deep Catharsis emerging out of ultimate despair. Day by day I praise the lord with words that just come to my mind, elegantly and beautifully. I sense the light all around me, getting louder and louder, brighter and brighter. Making it clear I must leave all this behind.

I think the rapture will be here soon, so stock up on all the Holy Spirit oil you can. There's a lot more to Christianity then going to church and living a lawful life.

I turned away from church because I honestly feel there are a bunch of idiots who argue over insignificant things. The difference between tweedledee and tweedledum, they will divide a whole church over.

They who have divided the body of Christ, and castrated the holy powers, I want nothing to do with their demoninations. I attend a non denominational church, as it is wonderful to come and worship and have some fellowship after all.

 

[Grafted_in]

You know, dear Crossword, that King David penned the 13th Psalm over a few millennium ago. Would you like to hear it?

1 How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?
2 How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?
3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
4 Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved.
5 But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.
6 I will sing unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me.

The first couple verses of Ps. 22 are along the same lines.

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

King David also wrote the 23rd Psalm. I do believe it is one of the most well known passages of the entire bible. Definitely the most well known chapter. It merits repeating.

1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Although I tend to discourage singling out verses, one that has often helped me through difficulty is Ps. 27:1

The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Dearest Crossword, I only know a portion of your personal story. I only know a small measure of your troubles. I only can imagine some of the sorrow which has undoubtedly consumed you at times. There is much I do not know, but I do know 2 Tim 3:16 and Rom 15:4

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope

Do not lose hope, dear friend. Anger will come and go, disappointment will come and go, trials and tribulations will come and go, but we must remain steadfast in the LORD. Moses was told to sacrifice Isaac, but he still had faith. Joseph was sold into slavery and falsely accused and cast into prison, but he still had faith. The Israelites were captive in Egypt, but they still had faith. Elijah and David feared for their lives; they ran into the wilderness to hide, but they still had faith. The Almighty God and His Son Jesus Christ are the author of our hope, our joy, and our salvation. Do not allow the problems of life to choke the word of God from your heart- quench not the Holy Ghost. Focus on the Father, not the fools which vex you.

 

[liars_paradox]

I didn't like where I was. I found it to be lonely, rejecting, contrived, impossible, confusing, greedy, and vain.

So I just concluded I was a prisoner here. I went into voluntary exile for my faith, when I could have some purpose and communion perhaps. I endured this lonely solitude, this despair, I did not go after money, but I also didn't make a life for myself.

I had lots of reasons. I suffered IBS all throughout school, having many sick days, insomnia, OCD, emotionally disabled, depression, and hyperactivity. I used to take riddilin, but I didn't like how it made me feel. It seemed to kill my inner fire, my inner joy, my wild imagination.

I was extremely paranoid of society, and not trusting of government. I mourned this world whenever I saw iniquity, though I fell into some of my own, sorrow has that effect at times.

I get that way sometimes, too. Sometimes I resent the world around me and get the impression that only the wicked are happy and successful. But, in our society's defense, we're probably a much more moral people than those who lived during the time of Jesus.

I was going to get into some of the finer details of Ancient Greek mythology and ancient Roman lifestyle, to compare our form of iniquity to theirs. But, I decided against getting into it. Let's just leave it at, they were much worse than us - by leaps and bounds. I just want to point out that when Jesus preached about "turning the other cheek" and not seeking worldly treasures over spiritual ones, the people of his time were probably more vengeful and more materialistic than we are today.

If you were to look into it yourself, you could look up certain things dealing with violence sexuality in ancient Greek mythology, Roman pornography, Roman prostitution, etc. Also, consider Aristotle's definition of "virtue" as being a balance between two ends. Aristotle's views on secular/normative ethics is different from some of the more recent philosophers such as Immanuel Kant, or John Rawls.

Immanuel Kant especially, you can tell has a Christian influence in his view of morality. So, even though it seems that many people are leaving Christianity, at least the secular parts of our life do hold a great deal of "Christian" influence in it. That most people in our society agree with a "Christian" sense of compassion even if they don't believe.

Alas, I am renewed. Full of light, full of passion that will not be quenched. Deep Catharsis emerging out of ultimate despair. Day by day I praise the lord with words that just come to my mind, elegantly and beautifully. I sense the light all around me, getting louder and louder, brighter and brighter. Making it clear I must leave all this behind.

You really should reconsider that.

I think the rapture will be here soon, so stock up on all the Holy Spirit oil you can. There's a lot more to Christianity then going to church and living a lawful life.

Jesus said that we won't know when the rapture will happen. This not only applies to us humans, but to the messiah himself and to the angels as well, only God the Father knows when His son will return. So, really you can't be certain that the time of his arrival will happen in your lifetime.

For all you know, God wants you to stay on this earth for another hundred years. If that's correct then you really hurt yourself by living life like your time to leave is going to happen soon.

I probably don't know how hard your life is on you, but I don't think that you will help yourself by thinking that the rapture will happen soon. I think that it's best to live your life like tomorrow is going to happen, as well as the day after that, and so on for many years. It doesn't hurt to be prepared for the time of His son's arrival, but don't count on it happening.