End Times

We shall know the end times by the signs and the
"birth pains."

However, no one knows the exact date, nor the
day, nor the hour or minute it starts.

But, we will know when the time comes.

Matthew 24:32-33
"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye
know the summer in nigh:"

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things,
know that it is near, even at the doors."

I believe we are in the END TIMES. But, I do not think that we will fully recognize the signs when they do come.

Prophecy seems to pass with few, if any, FULLY understanding the signs. I would not be surprised if a vast majority of Christians fail to recognize ANY of the signs.

I believe we are at the brink of the End times. How-
ever, I don't know exactly. I do see many of the birth pains described in
Matthew 24. I see the rise of many false christs, false preachers, pestilences, earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumors of wars,
and famines. It's all pretty evident at this point in time.

And with the annular eclipse on May 31st in the early morning in Israel, I can see that possibly more of Matthew 24 was fulfilled.

Couple with Isaiah's prophecy. 54% of sun was blocked in the morning and the moon did not give forth its light.

Hmmm...

I suppose, CBK, that would rest on how things progress - as listed in the Bible's order or how one might associate events.

First things first as found the the Bible's layout, I believe. Other stuff has to happen first before seals are broken.

Servant4Christ said:

I believe no one knows. God says that no one, not
even Jesus, knows when the day shall come.

Click to expand...

You are right. No one will know, until Jesus knows from God.

Then Jesus would know but humans would not know.

Jesus would not tell us immediately he knows from God hence there would be a period

of ignorance of Jesus's presence amidst humans.

cbk said:

I believe we are in the END TIMES. But, I do not think that we will fully recognize the signs when they do come.

Prophecy seems to pass with few, if any, FULLY understanding the signs. I would not be surprised if a vast majority of Christians fail to recognize ANY of the signs.

Click to expand...

Very accurate statement. In fact, the amount of scrutiny and degree of concentration

and connecting of so many dots is such that prophesy passes with people

caught up in the intense heat of day to day life and many personal activities that

many do miss the relevant signs.


Certain explanations are also too obvious to be prophecy fulfilments and these may be

assumed true by those not really following events with accuracy.

RaptureTicketHolder said:

I suppose, CBK, that would rest on how things progress - as listed in the Bible's order or how one might associate events.

First things first as found the the Bible's layout, I believe. Other stuff has to happen first before seals are broken.

Click to expand...

I've viewed both sides. I still believe we are much further along than the majority believes. A seven year tribulation may be true, but the seven year tribulation does not HAVE to start with the opening of the first seal.

It is my belief that, God willing, the seals could have been opened, step by step, during the last 2000 years. Spread out. The trumpets will show us that we are IN season and serve as a warning. The vials will be the final tribulation to those left behind.

I hate to do it, but I disagree with the seals already being opened, prior to the tribulation, or end-times. And as far as the birth pains well I think this world has already experienced some of them, nation rising against nation,(world war one) famines pestilences, the flu epidemic of 1918, and so on. Not to mention all the diseases that are popping up all over the world, and old ones re-surfacing. But these things are the BEGINNING of sorrows. So these things must happen, then we will know the end is near. How near? Well I cant say for sure, but apparently Jesus wanted us to have somewhat of an idea, or He wouldn't have given signs to look for. I dont think anyone in here is trying to be a "date-setter" but this is the study of end-times afterall, and what a better place to do this than here!

jayswife29 said:

I hate to do it, but I disagree with the seals already being opened, prior to the tribulation, or end-times. And as far as the birth pains well I think this world has already experienced some of them, nation rising against nation,(world war one) famines pestilences, the flu epidemic of 1918, and so on. Not to mention all the diseases that are popping up all over the world, and old ones re-surfacing. But these things are the BEGINNING of sorrows. So these things must happen, then we will know the end is near. How near? Well I cant say for sure, but apparently Jesus wanted us to have somewhat of an idea, or He wouldn't have given signs to look for. I dont think anyone in here is trying to be a "date-setter" but this is the study of end-times afterall, and what a better place to do this than here!

Click to expand...

But why could not the seven seals and seven trumpets be the descriptives of the beginning of sorrows that occur before Christ's return? And that the GREATER sorrows be the events of the seven vials of God's wrath??

The way I see it, the First Beast does not appear until AFTER the seven seals are opened and the seven trumpets are blown. This is seen based on the fact that this beast is not recognized until REV 13 -- which occurs AFTER the seven seals and seven trumpets! And note, this beast is given authority for 42 months (3.5 years) to trample. Now, to be given AUTHORITY, to me, means that God will allow IT to do IT's WILL WITHOUT God's interference. Therefore, the seven vials will NOT be poured during these 3.5 years. For, if they were, then the beast will not be exercising its authority to do as it pleases.

Then, sometime after the first beast's appearance (anywhere from day one to day 1260), the Son of Man will appear on the clouds (REV 14:14) to reap.

After this period of time, the 'unbelievers' (some who will actively seek God and many who will not) will be left to endure the wrath of God who will no longer give the beast the authority to EXERCISE ITS POWER and authority. The power and authority, during this time, will be exercised by GOD and are evident by the vials being poured out. The beast will be helpless, but, most likely will resist and try to hang on to its power during this period of time, which may very well be another 3.5 years.

Just some thoughts, in a nutshell

1) Beast is first mentioned AFTER the seven seals and seven vials.
2) It is given 100% authority to do ITS will for 42 months
3) The Son of Man appears on the clouds
4) The Beast's 42 months of 100% authority ends
5) The Beast and others (including unbelieving Jews) must endure the Vials of God's wrath which lasts for an undetermined time, which could be 3.5 years when coupled with Daniel's 70th week.

Now if the rapture occurs in Revelation 14:14, then the seven seals and seven trumpets will have to be indicators that the season is near.

cbk said:

But why could not the seven seals and seven trumpets be the descriptives of the beginning of sorrows that occur before Christ's return? And that the GREATER sorrows be the events of the seven vials of God's wrath??

The way I see it, the First Beast does not appear until AFTER the seven seals are opened and the seven trumpets are blown. This is seen based on the fact that this beast is not recognized until REV 13 -- which occurs AFTER the seven seals and seven trumpets! And note, this beast is given authority for 42 months (3.5 years) to trample. Now, to be given AUTHORITY, to me, means that God will allow IT to do IT's WILL WITHOUT God's interference. Therefore, the seven vials will NOT be poured during these 3.5 years. For, if they were, then the beast will not be exercising its authority to do as it pleases.

Then, sometime after the first beast's appearance (anywhere from day one to day 1260), the Son of Man will appear on the clouds (REV 14:14) to reap.



r.

Click to expand...

QUOTE The way I see it, the First Beast does not appear until AFTER the seven seals are opened and the seven trumpets are blown

That is because you assumed that The Book of Revelation follows in chronological order.

Read extensively on Revelation studies and you will realise that the first step is to look carefully at the events for many run in parallel with each other.

Take a look at the 5th seal Revelation 6:9-11. You have slaughtered saints crying out to God to hasten judgement. GOD REPLIES BY SAYING they should wait for many more of their brethren (believers) will be killed on earth--- TRIBULATION is in progress at this stage and the Beast is in action.

Again the 5th trumpets Revelation 9:1-6 shows MANY SIGNS of Satan and the beast see Revelation 9:1 The bottomless pit is open

THE FIVE MONTH SECTION OF INTENSE TRIBULATION that Christ cuts short (Matthew 24:21-22) is DESCRIBED IN REVELATION 9:5 Those with the Mark of Satan the beast, do not have the Mark/seal of God in their heads Revelation 9:4 thus are controlled by Satan and his released locusts from the pit, Revelation 9:3-5

The SIXTH SEAL IS COMPREHENSIVE -- It is a severe as the seventh vial and really you cannot have two sets of savage stars/hailstones dropping on earth with generals and leaders and people hiding in caves etc

They are two versions of the same event Revelation 6:12- 6th seal GREAT earthquake, mountains, islands removed, stars/celestial bodies fall on earth, people hiding in caves

7th vial Revelation 16:18- GREAT earthquake, thunder, islands, mountains away,celestial bodies dropping on earth...

The 5th seal AND 5 th trump are periods WHEN WE SEE severe tribulation on Earth and how could there be this persecution WITHOUT THE BEAST government not in place?
The 5th seal is very clear for the saints and believers on earth are being killed (some)
and Christ's description in intense tribulation Matthew 24:21-22 fits as the severe latter stages tribulation of Revelation 9:3-11.

Revelation 13:1-18 is not isolated from Revelation 6:9-11 and Revelation 9:1-11
Revelation 13 is used to describe the nature of the beast, The beast's receiving of Power and Authority from Satan, the description of the false prophet, tribulation and control of Earth during the 42 months and the worship of the image of the beast as well as the mark of the beast.

IT DOES NOT HOWEVER, take place in some separate future from Revelation 6:9 and Revelation 9:1-11 . The book of Revelation is event based and the chapters DO NOT
all follow chronologically.

TAKE REVELATION 12 for example. The ancient birth of Christ (1st century) Revelation 12:5 is placed AFTER Revelation 6, even though the seals in Revelation 6 take place well into the future after Revelation 12:5

Similarly Satan is seen fighting in Heaven Revelation 12:3-4 and this is a very ancient event.

The chapters are not placed in all the order in which they happened in history/the future.

hi cbk

I believe we are in the END TIMES. But, I do not think that we will fully recognize the signs when they do come.

Prophecy seems to pass with few, if any, FULLY understanding the signs. I would not be surprised if a vast majority of Christians fail to recognize ANY of the signs.

Click to expand...

well, scripture says "let the one who has wisdom understand the sayings"

Paul says that Messiah has become our wisdom.

and if you are saying that we will not understand the signs that are here and those that are to come- what you are saying is that we dont have messiah who is our wisdom.

and if you are saying that we will not Fully understand as an entire body when come together on what these signs are- then what you are saying is that we as a body do not completely have Messiah.

however says scripture plainly says
by john on patmos in his sepher hisgalus (book of revelation) that "let the one who has wisdom understand..."
point and blank- the TRUE BELIEVERS will KNOW and UNDERSTAND THE SIGNS AND TIMES.

however you did say

I still believe we are much further along than the majority believes.

Click to expand...

OH INDEED WE ARE.
crusader and i will be willing to share this to you- however not to the whole on this thread because it will cause very unecessary "heat".

Most of what we think is to come has already been since before we on these forums were even introduced into the world.

shalom u'bracha

I believe we are in the end times but we are not yet in tribulation. All of the natural phenomena that is referred to in prophesy all through the bible has not begun as that is part of tribulation.

I believe we are in the birth pangs though. The world is moving towards one worldness both in governments and religions. Men are running to and fro and knowledge is increasing, knowedge is increasing exponentially.

I may not be some great theological scholar; however, I do know the Holy Spirit and he testifies in me to the same. I would think that would be the source for any Christian to look for that answer. I don't believe we will go into tribulation unaware unless we have not been watching, and we have been told to watch not once but twice in regard to the end times.

Gwyn

sojeru said:

hi cbk

well, scripture says "let the one who has wisdom understand the sayings"

Paul says that Messiah has become our wisdom.

and if you are saying that we will not understand the signs that are here and those that are to come- what you are saying is that we dont have messiah who is our wisdom.

shalom u'bracha

Click to expand...

Basically, what I get from the above is the MESSIAH has become our wisdom, therefore MESSIAH understands these sayings. I do not doubt that. MESSIAH certainly understands these sayings.

And I agree that we WILL one day understand the signs that are here, but we do not understand at this moment in time. Look at the evidence which is contained within all these 'end time' threads and all the other threads and forums on the internet!

Probably 10-40% of Christians don't believe in a rapture and the rest do. A majority believe the 1st rider in Revelation represents the antichrist, while others believe it to represent the pure christian church, and others the polluted christian church. Many believe the time period between the first seal and the last vial to represent a time period of about 7 years, many others believe it to represent a period of around 2000 years, and others believe it has all happened.

Yes, Messiah is our wisdom, but wisdom is just ONE of the spiritual gifts and it, like the other gifts, has not been given to all equally. And wisdom can be given to Christians in different measures regarding different aspects of life. Wisdom in dealing with marriage problems, wisdom in making decisions for a church, wisdom in making decisions in financial matters, and, as I am alluding to, wisdom in understanding prophecy.

Yes, one day we will be with Christ and then we will have the wisdom of understanding prophecy. But, based upon the disagreements among Christians in regards to understanding prophecy, I stand with my original statements.

sojeru said:

hi cbk

however says scripture plainly says
by john on patmos in his sepher hisgalus (book of revelation) that "let the one who has wisdom understand..."
point and blank- the TRUE BELIEVERS will KNOW and UNDERSTAND THE SIGNS AND TIMES.

shalom u'bracha

Click to expand...

If you are suggesting, (when you say "the TRUE BELIEVERS will KNOW and UNDERSTAND THE SIGNS AND TIMES" simply because John wrote "let the one who has wisdom understand"), that all true believers will fully understand and those who do not fully understand are NOT true believers, then I disagree 100%.

Wisdom is a gift of various measure. If one is lacking, this does not delegate them to the status of a nonbeliever. If this be true, then those who are lacking in other spiritual GIFTS should be lumped with the unbelievers. Those who lack in the spirit of giving, edification, speaking in tongues, and the like.

sojeru said:

hi cbk

OH INDEED WE ARE.
crusader and i will be willing to share this to you- however not to the whole on this thread because it will cause very unecessary "heat".

Most of what we think is to come has already been since before we on these forums were even introduced into the world.

shalom u'bracha

Click to expand...

I agree that much has already happened, therefore, in my interest, I would like you to either submit a new thread or PM me with your views of Revelation.

God Bless.

Apparently Genesis was written to describe the BEGINNING and to me Revelation was written to describe the END. So who decides when the "end" happens? My personal view is that yes, many ,many things have happened to set the stage for the book of Revelation to be fulfilled, things that noone pays attention to, but does that mean that we are now at some point in the book of Revelation? Are we at chapter 10? 4? 22? I would have to say that we havent started any of the "chapters" yet, and wont until everything that Revelation predicts, can happen without interference from the U.S. or the U.N. or other countries that feel they have to have a say in the way things are done. If some leader rose up out of nowhere and decided to put micro-chips in our right hands or foreheads, dont you think some of us would be on to that? If this person decided to tell the world that he is Jesus, how many would really fall for it? These things take time to set in motion, and yes, while many things have come to pass, I dont think we are so far ahead that we wouldnt know it.

jayswife29 said:

Apparently Genesis was written to describe the BEGINNING and to me Revelation was written to describe the END. So who decides when the "end" happens? My personal view is that yes, many ,many things have happened to set the stage for the book of Revelation to be fulfilled, things that noone pays attention to, but does that mean that we are now at some point in the book of Revelation? Are we at chapter 10? 4? 22? I would have to say that we havent started any of the "chapters" yet, and wont until everything that Revelation predicts, can happen without interference from the U.S. or the U.N. or other countries that feel they have to have a say in the way things are done. If some leader rose up out of nowhere and decided to put micro-chips in our right hands or foreheads, dont you think some of us would be on to that? If this person decided to tell the world that he is Jesus, how many would really fall for it? These things take time to set in motion, and yes, while many things have come to pass, I dont think we are so far ahead that we wouldnt know it.

Click to expand...

My thoughts entertain the thought that the U.N. and the U.S., among others, are a part of Revelation and, therefore, Revelation has already been set into motion.

The U.N., to me, is the rebuilt Babylon encompassing the world. Many say the U.N. is not strong, but still it exists, it created modern Israel, it is active, it is comprised of the major nations of the world that many say "use" it, but I disagree. The countries that "use" the U.N. ARE the U.N.

U.N. --- rebuilt Babylon
E.U. --- rebuilt Roman Empire

cbk said:

My thoughts entertain the thought that the U.N. and the U.S., among others, are a part of Revelation and, therefore, Revelation has already been set into motion.

The U.N., to me, is the rebuilt Babylon encompassing the world. Many say the U.N. is not strong, but still it exists, it created modern Israel, it is active, it is comprised of the major nations of the world that many say "use" it, but I disagree. The countries that "use" the U.N. ARE the U.N.

U.N. --- rebuilt Babylon
E.U. --- rebuilt Roman Empire

Click to expand...

Israel has stood up to the UN as compared to Babylon

overpowering Judah in ancient times.