End Times Anti-Christ Theory

keras said:

The Anti-Christ does have royal authority, Revelation 17:12-13
He is, therefore a 'prince'.
Your continued denials of this truth, are an indictment against you.

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He's in perdition (v. 11).

He can be as authoritative as he wants there.

But you've just delivered the ultimate insult to the beast, which is to characterize a king as a mere prince, which he is not.

You should be more careful.

keras said:

The Anti-Christ does have royal authority, Revelation 17:12-13
He is, therefore a 'prince'.
Your continued denials of this truth, are an indictment against you.

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Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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jgr said:

He's in perdition (v. 11).

He can be as authoritative as he wants there.

But you've just delivered the ultimate insult to the beast, which is to characterize a king as a mere prince, which he is not.

You should be more careful.

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Wrong; Revelation 17:11 ….and he is going to destruction.

Irrelevant; the leader of the world can be a king, president or prince, even Sir would do!

You should get your facts straight and cease your petty arguments.

keras said:

Wrong; Revelation 17:11 ….and he is going to destruction.

Irrelevant; the leader of the world can be a king, president or prince, even Sir would do!

You should get your facts straight and cease your petty arguments.

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You should cease shilling for the beast.

He was in the process of going as John wrote.

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jgr said:

He's in perdition (v. 11).

He can be as authoritative as he wants there.

But you've just delivered the ultimate insult to the beast, which is to characterize a king as a mere prince, which he is not.

You should be more careful.

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jgr, I am not understanding your point. For Jesus is the Prince of peace.
And Jesus is also the King of kings.

Being both a prince and king is not a conflict.

Douggg said:

jgr, I am not understanding your point. For Jesus is the Prince of peace.
And Jesus is also the King of kings.

Being both a prince and king is not a conflict.

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True. And Jesus is explicitly declared to be both.

The beast is explicitly declared to be neither.

ewq1938 said:

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

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And?

ewq1938 said:

Obviously this shows the AC is also a King.

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Jesus is explicitly declared to be King of Kings.

What is the beast explicitly declared to be king of?

jgr said:

You should cease shilling for the beast.
He was in the process of going as John wrote.

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Just as the verse says; ...is going to destruction.
Which we know will finally happen after the Millennium. Revelation 20:10

jgr said:

What is the beast explicitly declared to be king of?

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Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:8 The 'beast', whom Satan has given his powers to, Rev 13:4, will be King, ruler, president, or just plain dictator over all the world, for the 42 months that God will allow it.

Why don't you read these things? Do you believe prophecy to be one big hyperbole and just allegorical?

keras said:

Just as the verse says; ...is going to destruction.
Which we know will finally happen after the Millennium. Revelation 20:10

Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:8 The 'beast', whom Satan has given his powers to, Rev 13:4, will be King, ruler, president, or just plain dictator over all the world, for the 42 months that God will allow it.

Why don't you read these things? Do you believe prophecy to be one big hyperbole and just allegorical?

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There are three different beasts across Revelation 13 and 17. Where does John identify which one is the AC?

Or more fundamentally, where does John identify that any one is the AC?

ewq1938 said:

His kingdom of course.

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Consisting of?

jgr said:

There are three different beasts across Revelation 13 and 17. Where does John identify which one is the AC?

Or more fundamentally, where does John identify that any one is the AC?

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jgr, your question is flawed because the person is the Antichrist for only when he is in the role of being the illegitimate King of Israel.

In Revelation, the only place that pertains to the person in that role, of being the Antichrist, is in Revelation 6, the rider on the white horse who is given a crown, at the beginning of the 70th week. Riding the white horse indicates that he is in the role of being the perceived messiah - because Jesus also rides a white horse in Revelation 19.

So otherwise, the person, who is the arch villain of the end times, in the biggest portion of Revelation is in the role of being the first beast of Revelation 13, who will be worshiped, and the image made of him. And is called the beast during the last 42 months of the 7 years.

During that 42 months time, as the beast, he is no longer the King of Israel (illegitimate), the Antichrist, but is the King of the Roman Empire end times.

King of the Roman Empire end times - little horn, prince who shall come, beast
King of Israel (illegitimate) end times - the Antichrist

I show these things on my chart...

Douggg said:

jgr, your question is flawed because the person is the Antichrist only when he is in the role of being the illegitimate King of Israel.

In Revelation, the only place that pertains to the person in that role, of being the Antichrist, is in Revelation 6, the rider on the white horse who is given a crown, at the beginning of the 70th week. Riding the white horse indicates that he is in the role of being the perceived messiah - because Jesus also rides a white horse in Revelation 19.

So the person, who is the arch villain of the end times, in the biggest portion of Revelation is in the role of being the first beast of Revelation 13, who will be worshiped, and the image made of him. And is called the beast during the last 42 months of the 7 years.

During that 42 months time, as the beast, he is no longer the King of Israel (illegitimate), the Antichrist, but is the King of the Roman Empire end times.

King of the Roman Empire end times - little horn, prince who come, beast
King of Israel (illegitimate) end times - the Antichrist

I show these things on my chart...

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Douggg, I think virtually every dispensationalist disagrees with you.

jgr said:

Douggg, I think virtually every dispensationalist disagrees with you.

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I am pretty sure you are right about your statement because it is an almost universal error that is made in referring to the person as the Antichrist as broadly the arch villain of the end times, and the other references as subsets.

When to be correct, being the Antichrist is one of the subsets.

keras said in post #111:

In 2 Thess 2:3-4 Paul calls him 'wickedness in human form' and 'the adversary who sits in God's Temple'.

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2 Thessalonians 2:3 ¶Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This indeed refers to the future man commonly called the Antichrist. For no man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the "beast") in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9. Any mistaken teaching which says that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could then take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist places the crown on his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

(Compare what Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 say)