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End Prohibition

I Just Believe In Me

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That is a ridiculous statement. Aside from the fact that no pharmaceutical product is as deadly or addictive as meth, pharmaceutical companies do not have the tendency to explode.
They explode because stupid people who do not no what they are doing work there. Gas stations would explode without the proper safety too. I do not think you are against gas stations. And legal drugs can be just as deadly an addictive as any illegal drug.
 
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flicka

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Say's who?
Pretty much anyone who thinks.
Seriously, you want THE GOVERNMENT to keep you from OD'ing, overeating, overdrinking, etc....you are basically saying you are totally out of control and helpless to live your life or make good decisions.
Don't move next to me.
 
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Apollo Celestio

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Pretty much anyone who thinks.
Seriously, you want THE GOVERNMENT to keep you from OD'ing, overeating, overdrinking, etc....you are basically saying you are totally out of control and helpless to live your life or make good decisions.
Don't move next to me.
Not the governments job to keep crazies out of your neighborhood. I'm sort of indifferent on this issue, yet skeptical that these solutions would work. Wouldn't the "open the floodgates" approach result in at least many initial deaths due to people just going nuts with it like they do with the legal drugs?
 
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ebia

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Pretty much anyone who thinks.
That's not entirely my experience. But nice try with the "anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot" tactic.

Seriously, you want THE GOVERNMENT to keep you from OD'ing, overeating, overdrinking, etc....you are basically saying you are totally out of control and helpless to live your life or make good decisions.
Don't move next to me.
If only the world were that black-and-white.
 
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KalithAlur

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I think legal drugs exist more harmful than Meth.

There are pain killers sold (on a prescription only basis) that are about as addictive as heroin, pain killers so powerful and addictive you might as well be prescribing heroin (heroin and cocaine used to be prescribed regularly, and Freud for one went Cocaine-nuts, prescribing the stuff like a cure-all. Sherlock Holmes injected coke and told Watson, "....transcendentally stimulating").

I'd also like to make it illegal to force adults to take medication unless you can prove they're a danger to other people if they don't. And it would be nice if doctors would stop eagerly over-prescribing patients just to make a buck. Mental patients, for instance, are given an ambiguous diagnosis and encouraged to believe that if they don't take some medication never proven to be effective anyway for the rest of their lives something catastrophic will happen.

My opinion on the issue being discussed is not set in stone. A few months ago, here's what I had to say on the subject:

I'm designing this for users, abusers, sober pro drug people, sober anti drug people, and legally intoxicated people (for instance, alcoholics).

In Aldous Huxley's Utopian Novel, Brave New World, a fictional society relies on a strictly structured life and a mind-numbing drug to induce social peace and happiness. This is a false utopia because the happiness created by the drug is temporary, highly addictive, and produces mental idiocy and complacency. Also, the caste system, the government of this society, is so strict few liberties, few choices exist at all.

Many false utopia fictionalizations present a society where kinds of real happiness are often obtained at the price of freedom. I would like drug addicts to consider whether, by taking mind-obsessing and mind-numbing drugs, you are surrendering your freedom for a temporary kind of incomplete happiness.

Sex is an addictive drug most of the world is on, having been born with nervous systems designed to self-obsess later in life. Consider whether it would be worthwhile, were it possible for you as a person, to transcend lust-as-desire, and if you decide it might be, perhaps research ways to safely do so.

I personally do not consider it worthwhile to take drugs that seem to me more likely to hinder intelligence and freedom than to promote my mental progress, even if I am happier on the drug than I am sober. I feel like this kind of a high is similar to a "false utopia" - freedom is sacrificed for a kind of temporary happiness that leads to misery sometimes, and other times merely keeps me from a greater happiness that is independent of need and obsession and chemically-inspired stupidity.

At the same time, what gives any individual the right to say to another full-grown, independent human, "This substance is forbidden,"? There is a certain attraction to forbidden objects. Also, humans tend to rebel against being told what to do by doing the opposite. And it seems to me treatment for drug addiction might be a whole lot easier if you weren't risking jail time just by talking openly about your addiction.

If drugs were legal, individuals could find safer settings to use them. Violence in relation to wars between drug lords would probably be about as nonexistent as violence between competing legal producers of pharmaceuticals such as antidepressants. Drugs would be safer because there would exist ways to regulate them, such as to prevent poisoning and disease. Major gangs would probably go out of business, or at least suffer significant loss of power. Jail populations would be significantly reduced. Law enforcement could focus on only investigating and arresting crimes that directly interfere with the lives of others, such as rape, murder, and theft.

I do not believe the United States of America is ready for legalized heroin. Because of the situation we are in, I consider legalization of all drugs a dangerous step toward more addiction and violent crime. Yet I do not believe you have a right to put a junky in jail just for being a junky, if no other crimes are proven to have been committed.

Would sterilizing the population of the lust impulse significantly decrease crime? We as a society have the technology to extract sperm and artificially duplicate the reproductive process without sex. If that didn't work, we could create a caste of superior genetic stock to keep their lust, breed and perpetuate our society's steady forward evolution. No children would be molested in church, no women or men would be raped and tortured because of sex, venereal diseases would no longer exist. The men might become less aggressive and more kind-hearted without their ball juice. Instances of inferior genetic material would be rare. No more public debate about gay rights and monogamy and all that stuff, we as a society would have far more time and concentration to think about real problems and their solutions, instead of always focusing on how to get laid.

Heroin addicts are quite often if not exclusively (in my opinion) untrustworthy and prone to commit heinous crimes. They seem to me to be far too addicted to that heroin to avoid cheating friends and family to get more. I think our society should work on getting rid of heroin completely, to totally chuck "heroin" out of this world. Taking heroin is like succumbing to the Devil for easy bliss, because that heroin is grate... if you'r careful? Maybe you could quit after one try. Saying things like this is an attempt to prove to yourself you'r superman so you can go ahead and try something strange and forbidden.

I believe marijuana used responsibly to be a safe drug that can promote enjoyment of life without encouraging addiction, and can even be used to enhance such things as creativity, deep thinking, and meditation. There have been documented health benefits. Marijuana can be eaten so as to avoid the long-term physical harm of smoking. In the modern world, vaporizers exist to provide a method of inhaling marijuana without causing significant long-term harm to the human lungs.

I believe other drugs exist that are stronger than, and therefore also more dangerous than, marijuana. A great deal of legitimate scientists have attempted to prove psychadelics can be used to significantly enhance human intelligence without risking insanity by choosing a proper setting, grounding yourself in psychology and self-analysis, and using sitters of a professional level of intelligence to promote the safety of experiments. The argument that a trained psychiatrist might need to attend use of the drugs is a valid one, but it seems to me absurd to fight human progress where such a powerful tool exists to enhance it. Should human intelligence suffer because of a few delusional individuals?

Should profound tools toward enhancing human evolution be forbidden because of (unless I'm exaggerating) the profound dangers of accelerated, higher-circuit brain activity? I see the situation similar to the situation of space exploration. If you, without any research or training, crap together a rocket ship, you'r risking the lives of everybody because you might crash into them! But if you find a way to migrate into outer space, to build a sustainable colony outside of the earth's atmosphere, because you are so competent and devoted to your work, . . . This is a very inaccurate picture of what I'm trying to say, but I think what I'm trying to say is important enuf to inspire brains to think hard enuf to git it!

If you are reading this and decide it is worthwhile to promote drug freedom, try to be a responsible user if you use at all. Show society you can be productive, constructive, and proactive.

There are many arguments I haven't covered but I feel this essay is useful toward inspiring deeper thought into the issue of drug use/abuse and legalization.
 
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WatersMoon110

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Yeah, I mean, who doesn't want a meth lab next door? Sorry, but your "open the floodgates" approach is insane.
Meth labs explode, not because they are cooking meth, but because they can't continually cook meth, and because the ingredients of meth have been changed to make it harder to make meth. A legal meth factory would not explode, because they could use pure ingredients and would not have to start and stop production constantly.

Also, a meth factory would be industrial and industrial zoning is almost never near residential. Where as an illegal meth lab very well might be set up in a house next to you...
Aside from the fact that no pharmaceutical product is as deadly or addictive as meth, pharmaceutical companies do not have the tendency to explode.
Um...morphine, oxycodone, and plenty of other prescription painkillers are quite dangerous and addictive.

Also, if such substances had to manufactured out of poor quality ingredients in bad conditions by people who only were not professionals, they might also explode.

Alcohol stills exploded, but breweries do not. When substances can be made of good ingredients in good settings, the chance of a horrible accident is greatly reduced.
 
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Lynden1000

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Not the governments job to keep crazies out of your neighborhood. I'm sort of indifferent on this issue, yet skeptical that these solutions would work. Wouldn't the "open the floodgates" approach result in at least many initial deaths due to people just going nuts with it like they do with the legal drugs?


Allowing people the freedom to make dumb choices doesn't absolve them from bearing the consequences of those dumb choices. If drugs were legalized and a few people went nuts and OD'ed, well then, they face the consequences of their dumb choice.

It's not the government's job to be my nanny or my chaperone. If I make irresponsible decisions, I reap the consequences.
 
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Caitlin.ann

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My fear is that I plan on having kids someday soon and I don't want them around meth, LSD, heroin, or other drugs more than they're already going to be. That and it would just make the world a more dangerous place.
 
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WatersMoon110

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My fear is that I plan on having kids someday soon and I don't want them around meth, LSD, heroin, or other drugs more than they're already going to be. That and it would just make the world a more dangerous place.
But they would already be around such drugs. Keeping drugs illegal doesn't make them not exist. Making drugs legal, and putting hefty restrictions on them would make them less prevalent.

Anyone who is going to do hard drugs like meth or heroin already is. Everyone who is smarter than that wouldn't do such substances even if they were legal.

People on LSD aren't a danger to anyone else, and rarely a danger to themselves. But it amuses me that you grouped it with drugs it is easy to become addicted to and easy to OD on.
 
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flicka

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That's not entirely my experience. But nice try with the "anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot" tactic.


If only the world were that black-and-white.
Well I never said anyone who doesn't think LIKE ME is an idiot, but if someone can't think enough to not OD then yes...they are an idiot. But still, the government can't prevent idiots now can they? No amount of laws or rules or control will make people more intelligent, sadly.

The government exists for many reasons, but keeping fools from hurting themselves shouldn't be a priority. The more "protecting" they try to do the less capable people become to handle things. It's a simple fact that every parent learns. We don't need the government to be super-nanny.
 
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Caitlin.ann

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But they would already be around such drugs. Keeping drugs illegal doesn't make them not exist. Making drugs legal, and putting hefty restrictions on them would make them less prevalent.

Anyone who is going to do hard drugs like meth or heroin already is. Everyone who is smarter than that wouldn't do such substances even if they were legal.

People on LSD aren't a danger to anyone else, and rarely a danger to themselves. But it amuses me that you grouped it with drugs it is easy to become addicted to and easy to OD on.

I didn't group any drugs on purpose, to be honest they were the first ones that popped into my head. I was not debating, simply expressing my own fears about drugs becoming legal. As I've stated in an earlier post, I am not sure what I think about illegal drugs becoming legal, only that I would have many reservations about them becoming legal.

And to be honest, I do disagree with your statement that "anyone who is going to do hard drugs already is". You fail to think of those children who haven't been introduced to it yet or those who haven't even born yet. But that would be a literal interpretation of your words.
 
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WatersMoon110

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I didn't group any drugs on purpose, to be honest they were the first ones that popped into my head. I was not debating, simply expressing my own fears about drugs becoming legal. As I've stated in an earlier post, I am not sure what I think about illegal drugs becoming legal, only that I would have many reservations about them becoming legal.

And to be honest, I do disagree with your statement that "anyone who is going to do hard drugs already is". You fail to think of those children who haven't been introduced to it yet or those who haven't even born yet. But that would be a literal interpretation of your words.
"Any adult" then? People who haven't been born are "anyone" because they don't exist. You are right that I wasn't thinking about children.

But still, almost no one has the inclination to use hard drugs. And anyone who does have that inclination is already doing them. Children who haven't heard of hard drugs don't have that inclination, though they might grow up and choose to do so, I suppose (though I feel that explaining the dangers of such hard drugs would convince any sane person to avoid them).

But, the .01% or so (might be less, actually) of the population that has the desire to use heroin are already doing so, despite its legal status. If it were legal, the only difference is that their purchase would stimulate the economy, would be taxed, and the quality and amount of the substance they get would be regulated (along with an assurance of having clean needles).

Almost no one wants to use hard drugs, and making them legal wouldn't change that. I wouldn't do heroin if it were legal and free, because there are too many risks involved. Almost no one would use a hard drug, because they have reasons (other than the legal status) to not do so.

Drugs exist, legal or not. I don't see the point in trying to arrest people (and fill up our prisons) with non-violent drug offenders, and allowing illegal drugs to support organized crime. If people are going to keep doing something, and that thing doesn't harm anyone outside of their body (most drugs are harmful both to the user and to pregnant women's unborn human "cargo" *wink*), why not make it legal and tax it?
 
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Peach81

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As I've stated in an earlier post, I am not sure what I think about illegal drugs becoming legal, only that I would have many reservations about them becoming legal.
I think everyone does, and they should. Drugs should be taxed, regulated, and have legal age restrictions, just like booze and cigarettes (well, purchasing them, anyway).

But I don't have any fear about people doing more drugs should they be legalized. I'm a product of the "just say no" generation, and after having grown up with much more anti-drug propaganda than any other generation before me (or after me), I think it's safe to say that people are going to get high no matter what. Criminalizing drugs doesn't make any difference about that.
 
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ebia

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Well I never said anyone who doesn't think LIKE ME is an idiot,
It appears you did:
You: <original statement>
Me: "says who?"
You" "anyone who thinks"
Implication - anyone who thinks agrees with your original statement, so anyone who doesn't agree with it doesn't think.

but if someone can't think enough to not OD then yes...they are an idiot.
To a point, yes.

But still, the government can't prevent idiots now can they? No amount of laws or rules or control will make people more intelligent, sadly.
No, but they can mitigate the consequences.
The government exists for many reasons, but keeping fools from hurting themselves shouldn't be a priority.
I don't see that this is self evidently true.

The more "protecting" they try to do the less capable people become to handle things. It's a simple fact that every parent learns.
Parents learn that you need a balance. Enough freedom to learn self-responsibility, enough restriction to mitigate against serious harm. Neither extreme works - all freedom and the child ends up dead (or unable to operate in an organised society), all restriction and the child never learns self responsibility.
 
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ebia

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I think everyone does, and they should. Drugs should be taxed, regulated, and have legal age restrictions, just like booze and cigarettes (well, purchasing them, anyway).
That will neatly ensure there is some scope for organised crime - don't want to put them all out of a job! ;)
 
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WatersMoon110

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That will neatly ensure there is some scope for organised crime - don't want to put them all out of a job! ;)
Please. Organized crime doesn't both selling cigarettes or alcohol to minors, because there isn't enough money in it. They would not bother selling other drugs, were they legal, for the same reason.

I could photocopy the newspaper and sell it, but it isn't cost efficient for me to do so.

Organized crime would still to large money crimes, theft, murder, gambling, prostitution, and "protection". Making drugs legal would get them out of the drug market, because there wouldn't be enough people looking to get drugs illegally (other than prescription drugs, I guess).
 
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