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Employers Are About to Take Back Control

rjs330

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Well I am seeing a commonality in this thread. People who have no idea how to run a business. A lot of sour grapes and whining. I know all of you know how to run a business so much better than everyone. That's why you all are in management and running businesses.

Why don't you all do what's needed and show the rest of us and the world how it's done.

But to do so you'll have to do better than average. It's easier to remain average than to stand out cause you get to sit back and gripe about everything without really doing anything.

Anyway I'm done with this thread. But you all may continue complaining how you are all slaves and if you were running the company you would all have lots of workers and pay them lots and lots of money for average work. Your companies would be thriving and a utopia for all the employees.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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I worked for one IT company that did not have pay raises for the 6 years I was there. Bonus? After 35 years in the workforce, the company I am with now is the FIRST to offer an annual bonus.

33% of companies in the U.S. offer year-end bonuses. 40.5% of all U.S. workers have access to nonproduction bonuses. The most common bonuses received are year-end bonuses (11% of all employees), holiday bonuses (6% of all employees), and cash profit-sharing bonuses (7% of all employees).

 
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Larniavc

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Giving your best doesn't require you work more hours.
Then one shouldn't be working late, coming in early or being called on days off. If you are agree with that then we are in accord.
 
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Larniavc

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I wonder if you are the guy that complains about getting passed over.
Nope. For the past five years I've declined opportunities to move up because it would take me away from my current role which (for the first time in my employment history) I actually enjoy.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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For anyone interested in making the jump into management, I've started a new thread in the Business section

 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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It depends. If there is a project deadline and we're busting our humps, I don't mind doing that, and in fact, I enjoy the satisfaction of hitting that "Send" button and closing out the project.

But if you are asking me to do it month after month and it costs me time with my family and mental health, then never again. I was suicidal due to 2 years of overwork. One night after another 80 hour week, I got my car up to 130mph and fully intended to hit a guardrail. My wife had told me that she was a single mother who couldnt even date because I was working 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week. I hadn't seen my children awake that entire week. I figured it would be best if I at least could give my wife insurance money. Fortunately, I changed my mind and started applying to seminary later that week. Within 4 months, I was gone and I swore that I would NEVER work that again in my life.
 
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KCfromNC

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What’s wrong with average work?
Yeah, that's the interesting part. There are complaints here about employees who are anything other than exceptional. And yet when the idea was floated that a company might need to pay more than the competition to get those better employees, we were told that was impossible.
And then that it was employees who were acting entitled.
 
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KCfromNC

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Except premium pay hasn't worked. My wife's company has had the same problem. Across the country it's the same thing.

The ignorance shown on this thread is quite fascinating.
As are the personal attacks based on nothing but anecdotes.
 
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KCfromNC

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Well I am seeing a commonality in this thread. People who have no idea how to run a business. A lot of sour grapes and whining.

And now we get the implication that people who don't buy into the management-by-magazine-article talking points are just bitter rather than addressing the the reasons they don't buy into them.

I know all of you know how to run a business so much better than everyone. That's why you all are in management and running businesses.

Why don't you all do what's needed and show the rest of us and the world how it's done.

My job is an extremely specialized individual contributor role which I strongly doubt you could do. Using your argument, that means you would need to go back to school for another half dozen years and rack up 25 years in industry before criticizing my perspective of how to handle the business world from that position as expressed in this thread.

Is this really a road you'd want to go down?

Anyway I'm done with this thread. But you all may continue complaining how you are all slaves and if you were running the company you would all have lots of workers and pay them lots and lots of money for average work.

I thought the scenario in the earlier post was that there was a hard to find skill that wasn't filled by offering average pay. Now that employee would just be average? I see how the rationalizations work to avoid paying people market rate.
 
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KCfromNC

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Giving your best doesn't require you work more hours.
However, based on previous posts, if you give your best and work fewer than 40 hours - pay cut time!

Lots of "heads I win, tails you lose" thinking going on here. No wonder is it hard for some companies to adjust when the labor market gets tight, they're too used to having control over the situation to have an objective view of the supply and demand constraints.
 
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iluvatar5150

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And when the prospect of raising salaries for medical staff came up, the rationale against it was that doctor's visits would cost too much. As if 1.) customers are entitled to the labor of others, 2.) doctors' high salaries don't contribute more significantly to that, 3.) insurance compliance overhead doesn't already contribute to that.

Anything to avoid paying people more.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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My hospital's nurse recruiter just walked out the door, no two weeks notice, just up and out. She was being given assignments that had NOTHING to do with her core job. "Can you create signs for our executive assistants day?", "Would you set up meetings for staff?". This even though we are short 150 nurses out of 800 positions. Well, I guess we're done recruiting for the year.
 
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iluvatar5150

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But I thought companies would love to have more people if they could only find them.

I wonder if that's what was going on with the recruiters at my last job, because most of them weren't doing much in the way of recruiting. I could barely even get them to screen the applications that came in to us.
 
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rambot

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Except premium pay hasn't worked. My wife's company has had the same problem. Across the country it's the same thing.

The ignorance shown on this thread is quite fascinating.
But I don't see a competent reply TO inform the ignorant Like this, for example. Making a pronouncement and giving a SINGLE anecdote to think you've actually addressed the "ignorance on display".
That's insufficient.

The example of Dan Price's company is a pretty clear example of how well increasing employee pay can lead to more retention. If bosses keep seeing their workers as minions making them more money, workers pick up on that. And the youngsters? They won't stomach that anymore unless they also get a bump.


Google tells me the 5 main drivers of retentions: What are the 5 main drivers of employee retention?
 
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rjs330

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Yeah that is not right. That employer was not taking care of their people. I've had a few very long weeks in my career. I think the longest was about 60 hours. Part of the responsibility of being a good leader is taking care of their people while at the same time taking care of the company. You can do both. Doing the right thing for the right reason and the right time. If a company is requiring this months on end they are extremely poorly run. I wouldn't work for someone like that either.
 
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rjs330

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Yeah since you are so specialized you don't really know how to run a business as you claim should be run.

I'm sure it would be very successful. You would fill your business with all the people you want and pay them all boatloads of money and still remain in business.

It just proves that you don't really know what it takes.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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Welcome to the world of Jack Welch's General Electric my friend. The dream there was to live off the stock.

 
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rjs330

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I think it's important (yes I got sucked back in) to say there is an awful lot of misunderstanding or maybe a lot of purposeful misconstruing going on. So let me be clear about a few things.

1. No business should abuse their employees. Asking them to work 80 hours a week is not right. Asking them to work 45-50 hours occasionally when something comes up is not above the pale. If you treat them well the other times they will do it without complaint. Especially if you are working along side them. People need to balance life with work. We NEED work. But we also need our friends and family. Time to relax and enjoy the fruits of our labor. It's very poor leadership take that away from people. You are not a leader, your a dictator. You don't care a lot about people. Real leaders care.

And if you treat you people right in that way you will find the real gems who are willing to give extra time and extra effort when it is needed and not just when it's an emergency. They will be your future leaders.

2. Businesses can rarely hire enough workers these days. With a 3% unemployment rate you cannot fill all the needed positions to cover contingencies that come up. Let me provide an example. You have a staff that is specialized in what they do. You need 10 people working full time to get the job done. But you try to account for the need of someone going on vacation, being out sick, getting injured etc. You try and account for that by saying you need 13 employees. However, you can only find 10. So, well we need to offer more money to entice more people. So you offer more money. More money than anyone else in the area. But despite that you only find one more that is interested in the work. So you hire the one. Then someone quits cause they decide to do something else. Now you are back to 10. Then all those ten get a total of 20 weeks of vacation a year. 80 hours per employee who work has to be done now by someone else. You can't hire a temp to fill it cause it takes months to train someone up to speed.

It's extremely naive to think every job is able to be filled simply by offering more money. Not everyone is interested or even capable of doing the work no matter how much you offer. We have had quite a few businesses close in our area due to staff shortages despite offering very good wages.

3. Businesses do need to offer fair pay for fair work. That's part of taking care of your people. It's true that you won't attract the best people with poor wages. With higher wages should also come higher standards and higher expectations. If you are an average worker you should expect average pay. If you are a great worker, and do what is asked of you, you don't steal time and you give some extra you should expect better pay and better opportunities. You will never move up in a company without standing out. Unless the company is desperate.

But companies need to be fair with their pay. Screwing over people is just inexcusable and you won't attract or keep good people. Again it's about caring for your people.

4. Train your people. You cannot expect them to do the job well or right without proper training. It just creates frustration and dissatisfaction.

5. Offer them opportunities to grow. Give them work that's not specifically in their job description. Good wording to use is "and other duties as assigned". But don't over use this. The reason for this is development. You are a really bad leader if you don't prepare for the future. Employees have to learn to grow. Leaders are created. It's a poor company that hasn't offered employees opportunities to grow and learn new skills and thought processes. Sometimes that comes with assignments. How they tackle those assignments says a lot about the person and if they have any leadership abilities. But do not give them an assignment without helping them. Telling them to do something they have never done nor had any training on and just leaving them to flounder, is not leadership. Real leadership is having them do something they have never done and then providing them the support, the tools and the guidance they need to be successful at it. If they fail, it's your fault as the leader. It's not on them, it's on you.

6. You have to offer feedback. And I don't just mean negative feedback. People need to know when they are doing well and how much you appreciate them. Spend time with them one on one. Get to know them, their values what they want to accomplish and provide feedback on how they can do that. Don't feed them a crap sandwich with praise on the top, criticism in the middle and praise on the bottom. That never works. Save you constructive criticism for specific times and events and show them exactly what to do to improve. Ask them how you can improve. What can you do better for them. Ask them how you can help them reach their goals.

So this often and not just once a year. Never ever surprise them on an evaluation. When they receive one they should know exactly what's on it cause you've been talking the entire year with them.

Whew I could go in but that's it.
 
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iluvatar5150

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For the most part, I agree. However, I suspect you think these things are a lot more commonplace than they really are.
 
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