"Embedded Age" and Why it's Wrong

EternalDragon said:

All our fossils and rocks do not come with age tags. The ages are assumed. Also, all the fossils, coal and oil were formed from being buried by the recent flood. (burial, heat and pressure).

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Please. Explain for us, in detail, how oil, gas and coal are formed. This should be hilarious.

(btw, fossils aren't formed by "heat and pressure")

lasthero said:

The islands further from the hotspot returned the oldest ages, and have the most erosion. There's no reason for it to be like that if they were made in a relatively short amount of time.

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Sure there is..a rapid movement during a time when nature was changing (hence patterns of isotopes different).

dad said:

Sure there is..a rapid movement during a time when nature was changing (hence patterns of isotopes different).

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PsychoSarah said:

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Not only isotopes but magnetic reversals. Lots of changes went on.

dad said:

Not only isotopes but magnetic reversals. Lots of changes went on.

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I don't even have an emoticon for the amount of angst I have felt throughout today. You do realize the moment you give a time frame for your supposed change of state I will refute you, right?

PsychoSarah said:

You do realize the moment you give a time frame for your supposed change of state I will refute you, right?

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I seriously doubt it.

AV1611VET said:

I seriously doubt it.

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I seriously doubt a being which is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient would have to create the funky, half done physics dad claims. It makes out your god to be foolish, as if it couldn't do things right by doing them just once.

PsychoSarah said:

I don't even have an emoticon for the amount of angst I have felt throughout today. You do realize the moment you give a time frame for your supposed change of state I will refute you, right?

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Ha. Good luck with that.

Probably about 4400 real years ago. Hey, if I am shown wrong, no problem, I can tweak things.

dad said:

Ha. Good luck with that.

Probably about 4400 real years ago. Hey, if I am shown wrong, no problem, I can tweak things.

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Tweak things now? How can you tweak an idea that wasn't finished to begin with?

PsychoSarah said:

I seriously doubt a being which is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient would have to create the funky, half done physics dad claims.

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Those "funky, half done physics" you're talking about operated in a different state, where the life expectancy was much longer than it is today, and light moved faster than C.

dad said:

Hey, if I am shown wrong, no problem, I can tweak things.

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You'll have to be shown wrong first.

PsychoSarah said:

Tweak things now? How can you tweak an idea that wasn't finished to begin with?

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You were given the date. Let's see what you got.

dad said:

You were given the date. Let's see what you got.

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4400 years ago (BTW, weird number) for when physics suddenly managed to stabilize, according to you. This is what you stand by?

AV1611VET said:

You'll have to be shown wrong first.

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If I am wrong (or you) about how God was right, that might be somewhat tough, but I suspect we'd get over it. Of course God would still have been right all along anyhow in another way. Since science pretended to know all about creation of the universe and man and moon, etc, we can't be blamed for trying to guess how and why they were wrong We don't really have to know, as we don't claim to have all the details of how God created.

lasthero said:

I agree, which is why it kind of baffles me that he keeps getting tossed out as an example. It's like I'm not allowed to make statements of what his body was like, but ED is. For reasons.



Wow, that's a little creepy, I was going to bring those up.

Adding on to what you say here...



The islands further from the hotspot returned the oldest ages, and have the most erosion. There's no reason for it to be like that if they were made in a relatively short amount of time.

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yes, the big island is clearly more recently formed than all the others, you can see the angular form of its rocks; sharp edges, etc.

The other islands have clearly experienced more erosion; the rocks are always rounded off, smoother.

Its such a basic difference even us laymen can observe it.

And the islands all grow smaller and smaller the farther they are from the big island. Clear evidence of having longer and longer times on each island to be eroded away.

Such plain evidence of an ancient earth. Every globe made shows this evidence. Those islands are not just an appearance of age. They are mute evidence of ancient volcanic eruptions. Eruptions that could not have occurred so long ago if YEC is true, therefore YEC is not true.

dad said:

If I am wrong (or you) about how God was right, that might be somewhat tough, but I suspect we'd get over it.

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I'm sure we will!

AV1611VET said:

Those "funky, half done physics" you're talking about operated in a different state, where the life expectancy was much longer than it is today, and light moved faster than C.

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No! Do we have a genuine "speed of light used to be faster" adherent among us? Please, share with us how fast light was traveling in Adam's day. And . . . do you hold to a variable rate for radioactive decay?

If you are solving the distant starlight problem for the YEC by means of faster light in the past, you are postulating changes in the speed of light from the creation of earth until now on the order of millions and even billions of times faster.

Is that what you do?

PsychoSarah said:

4400 years ago (BTW, weird number) for when physics suddenly managed to stabilize, according to you. This is what you stand by?

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That is my best estimate so far. If the flood was (often dated at about) 4500 years ago, then Peleg would have been born probably a little over a century after that. In his days the earth was split.

Now a quick google found this..it may not be a reliable site, but I could find others if it was an issue. The basic idea many creationists have is that maybe the continents moved in Peleg's day..


"
It was in the time after the flood
The time is about 2200 BC.
A century and a half after the flood Abraham has not yet been born, but Noah and his sons are still alive[3].
The signs of the great catastrophe that has been brought to the earth by God are still very real. Everybody knows exactly what happened and why it happened, because Noah and his sons are there to tell them everything. It however seems as if the new generations of people that started to inhabit the world after the catastrophe of the flood have not learnt from the past. They do not humble themselves before the God of Noah.
Nimrod is a powerful leader, ‘the first on earth to be a mighty man’ who starts a great and successful kingdom (Gen 10:8-12), and whose followers multiply and settle in cities. Successful social systems are established in these cities. Enough food is produced and logistical systems are in place for cities and the citizenry to function optimally. The heavenly bodies, the paths of the sun and the moon are studied. Engineers find ingenious ways to erect huge buildings and statues. Truly a mighty civilization of great splendour!
However, they forgot God, their Creator. Once before, during the time of the Great Flood of Noah, God had bemoaned the fact that He had created man. ‘It was grief to the Lord ever having made man on the earth: He felt grieved at heart.’ (Gen 6:6). Here the same apostasy is on the verge of happening again.
‘The sons of men’ (Gen 11:5) embarked upon an enormous project, to build a city and a tower ‘with its top in the heavens.’ Their thinking was, ‘to make a name for ourselves’ and to reach heaven which was the dwelling of God, thus becoming famous and to prevent being scattered across the world. Again mankind was not cognizant of God’s will and rather acquiesced to Satan’s megalomania.
God intervened.
Strange things began to happen
Through God’s intervention chaos ensued. It was a strange and terrifying experience to realize that they were unable to communicate with each other as in the past. The common language they had shared in the past had disappeared[4]. This had grave consequences. Unable to communicate, they were therefore unable to finish the tower and to uphold the systems that were so important for their city life. Social systems started to disintegrate. They started to quarrel among themselves. Many people left the cities that they had built with so much passion and moved with their families and friends to new places in total disarray.
They were stunned to realize that they were unable to control the world that they thought they owned. It was humiliating to realize that they were not so bright and unconquerable as they had thought themselves to be. Yet they did not humble themselves before their Creator. Instead they kept on worshipping the creation.
Then things became even worse.
Earthquakes shook the world. Mankind became really afraid when rumors of great ruptures in the earth became known. The situation had become so bad that certain well-known areas simply disappeared. Great lakes which seemed to become bigger and bigger, appeared in the vicinity of these mysterious ruptures. Within weeks lakes had become oceans that separated them from friends and family.
They did not understand what was happening to them.

In fact, God was dividing and moving great land masses, including plants, animals and people to new destinies. These landmasses were drifting like huge boats on the melted lava below them. God’s almighty hand was pushing them thousands of kilometers in all directions across the globe.
Within a relatively short period of time the face of the globe had been changed completely. In the years to come people would speak of continents which had been separated from one another by oceans of water.
As I sit here in my study, I stare in amazement at the globe on my desk. Once again I am filled with wonderment at God’s hand which is so clearly visible in the beautiful and dramatic division of the land masses and the true greatness of it all.
Humankind is disrupted.
These developments on earth in the days of Peleg had severe implications for many people.
Many of them found themselves imprisoned on islands in the sea, with the roaring waves of the ocean that prohibited them and their descendants forever to find their way back to the world they had previously known and loved. Others experienced dramatic climate changes. They were engulfed by cold winds and snow. Many died and only the young and the strongest managed to survive. Others were overcome by droughts. The world around them changed into a desert.

In many areas people lost hope. They became a degenerated people, far from the glory of their ancestors. They lost their motivation to build proper houses and instead took refuge in temporary huts and even in caves. They did not bother to make proper clothes for themselves as in the past. Their aim was just to survive, which they accomplished by foraging for plants and hunting wild animals. The technique and the will to plough, to plant, to care, to cultivate and to civilize had been lost.
Many groups aimlessly moved in and around the buildings, the temples and the statues that their energetic forefathers had erected in previous, prosperous times. Inexplicably the new generation had lost the motivation to keep up the legacy of their past in just a few years.


The dividing of the continents in the days of Peleg according to Genesis 10:25

Paul of Eugene OR said:

No! Do we have a genuine "speed of light used to be faster" adherent among us?

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Yes, but I'm not of the Barry Setterfield stock.

Paul of Eugene OR said:

Please, share with us how fast light was traveling in Adam's day.

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Faster than C.

Light moved through a pure universe, consisting of Shekinah energy.

After the Fall, God withdrew this energy, and now light has to travel slower, through "quantum foam."

In my opinion.

AV1611VET said:

Yes, but I'm not of the Barry Setterfield stock.

Faster than C.

Light moved through a pure universe, consisting of Shekinah energy.

After the Fall, God withdrew this energy, and now light has to travel slower, through "quantum foam."

In my opinion.

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So how much faster did light travel? In particular, when we look at the most distant galaxies that astronmers tell us are billions of light years distant, are we seeing them by light that traveled much faster than c in Adams day, enough faster that the light actually traveled all that far back to us today but having started only 6000 years ago? Is that your position?