Elon Musk to the 99%---No Free Tax Filing for You.

[iluvatar5150]

Speaking of people who didn't read the article...

"MSN" is not the source of this article. MSN is just a news aggregator. USA Today is the source.

That’s what I get for trusting others’ takes on things.

 

[probinson]

It’s really not more than simply uploading a photo/video.

It really is.

I haven’t used this particular app, but I have used other ones that do scans for things like personalized audio dsp and, at most, all you’re uploading is a video of your face from different angles. It’s possible they’re doing their analysis on the app side, but I kind of doubt it because it’s easier and more secure to just have the user upload the photos/videos and do the processing on a server. If somebody was at all motivated, they could build the same models from your Instagram reel.

3. What Biometric Information Do We Collect?​

The information we collect will vary depending on the specific type of Services you request. Many ID.me Services do not require Biometric Information, however certain Services – those requiring a NIST 800-63A IAL2 credential, such as the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), Office of Veterans Affairs (VA), or certain state unemployment or labor departments - may require a higher level of assurance for your identity verification. When you sign up for an applicable ID.me Service we may collect the following Biometric Information:

• Facial Biometrics: Our Service may require you to upload an image of your government issued or other identification document(s) as well as your photographic image or "selfie" photograph using your mobile or other device. We use these images to create a facial geometry or faceprint which we use for purposes of identity verification and to prevent the creation of multiple accounts in a fraudulent manner.
• Fingerprint Information: Our Service may require the submission of fingerprints, including fingerprint or hand scanning. Our Service may require the submission of fingerprints, including fingerprint or hand scanning, which we use for purposes of identity verification and to prevent the creation of multiple accounts in a fraudulent manner.

https://www.id.me/biometric

It's good to know that you think you could create this same "faceprint" from still photos and videos on Instagram. Who needs ID.me when Facebook and Instagram exist?

Ultimately, I think you’re getting hung up on the word “biometric,” which is really just a fancy-sounding catch-all term for anything related to your body.

If you want to believe ID.me is just collecting photos and videos, I suppose that's your prerogative. I tend to believe them when they say they are collecting biometric data that allows them to create your "faceprint".

 

[Fantine]

You’re not uploading “biometric facial recognition data” to id.me, are you? You’re uploading a picture (or a video). The analytical data is generated on their end, just like they could generate from other media.

Is that what us contained in the new TSA required airline drivers' licenses?

 

[iluvatar5150]

It really is.

3. What Biometric Information Do We Collect?​

The information we collect will vary depending on the specific type of Services you request. Many ID.me Services do not require Biometric Information, however certain Services – those requiring a NIST 800-63A IAL2 credential, such as the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), Office of Veterans Affairs (VA), or certain state unemployment or labor departments - may require a higher level of assurance for your identity verification. When you sign up for an applicable ID.me Service we may collect the following Biometric Information:

• Facial Biometrics: Our Service may require you to upload an image of your government issued or other identification document(s) as well as your photographic image or "selfie" photograph using your mobile or other device. We use these images to create a facial geometry or faceprint which we use for purposes of identity verification and to prevent the creation of multiple accounts in a fraudulent manner.
• Fingerprint Information: Our Service may require the submission of fingerprints, including fingerprint or hand scanning. Our Service may require the submission of fingerprints, including fingerprint or hand scanning, which we use for purposes of identity verification and to prevent the creation of multiple accounts in a fraudulent manner.

https://www.id.me/biometric

It's good to know that you think you could create this same "faceprint" from still photos and videos on Instagram. Who needs ID.me when Facebook and Instagram exist?



If you want to believe ID.me is just collecting photos and videos, I suppose that's your prerogative. I tend to believe them when they say they are collecting biometric data that allows them to create your "faceprint".

The section you quoted describes what they collect as pics of your ID and a “selfie”. And, where applicable, fingerprints.

I’m starting to think you don’t really understand how this works.

Your phone can’t do much more for this service other than take pictures/videos. What they do is some kind of photo analysis to see if your selfie matches the photo on your DL. I don’t know if the analysis is done client-side (in which case you are, in fact, uploading “biometric data”) or if it’s done server-side (in which case you’re just uploading a photo), but ultimately I don’t think it really matters, because in either case, what you’re providing it with is a photo and folks can get a photo of you other ways.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Is that what us contained in the new TSA required airline drivers' licenses?

I don’t know what makes those things special.

 

[probinson]

Is that what us contained in the new TSA required airline drivers' licenses?

If you're talking about REAL ID, it is not required yet. Currently, the deadline is set for May 5 of this year. The REAL ID act was passed in 2005 and has experienced 20 YEARS of delays and extended deadlines. The TSA has already proposed extending the deadline AGAIN to 2027.

TSA Punts REAL ID Enforcement To 2027

Only 70% of state-issued identifications would be REAL ID-compliant by the May 2025 deadline, raising the prospect of delays at airport security checkpoints.

www.forbes.com

Personally, I don't think they'll EVER enforce it.

 

[probinson]

The section you quoted describes what they collect as pics of your ID and a “selfie”. And, where applicable, fingerprints.

I’m starting to think you don’t really understand how this works.

The feeling is mutual.

Your phone can’t do much more for this service other than take pictures/videos. What they do is some kind of photo analysis to see if your selfie matches the photo on your DL. I don’t know if the analysis is done client-side (in which case you are, in fact, uploading “biometric data”) or if it’s done server-side (in which case you’re just uploading a photo), but ultimately I don’t think it really matters, because in either case, what you’re providing it with is a photo and folks can get a photo of you other ways.

Just stoop and think about the implications of what you're saying. The ostensible purpose of ID.me is to eliminate fraud by proving one's identity with their biometric data. If that can be done with simple photos that you find online, then the whole verification system is a sham.

What you are suggesting is that anyone with a photo of you could pass ID.me's verification process. That totally undermines their service which uses biometric data to confirm your identify.

If you want to provide your biometric data to ID.me, be my guest. But telling people it's no different than uploading photos and reels to Instagram is egregiously incorrect.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What you are suggesting is that anyone with a photo of you could pass ID.me's verification process. That totally undermines their service which uses biometric data to confirm your identify.

I think that’s probably more accurate than either of us would like it to be. What they’d have to safeguard against are cases where somebody is holding a photo up to the phone camera - there might be ways of doing this, like using the various sensors in the phone to detect odd or incongruent behavior that doesn’t jive with what happens when somebody takes a selfie.

But I’m reminded of the trope in spy movies where the bad guys cut off the hand/finger/eyeball of a guard and hold it up to a scanner to gain access to the secret facility. I would not at all be surprised if this system were vulnerable to something similar.

If you want to provide your biometric data to ID.me, be my guest. But telling people it's no different than uploading photos and reels to Instagram is egregiously incorrect.

I wish my taxes were simple enough for this to be a concern for me.

But to resolve this - what exactly do you think you’re uploading to these guys? Sure, it’s “biometric data,” but WHAT exactly?

 

[probinson]

I think that’s probably more accurate than either of us would like it to be. What they’d have to safeguard against are cases where somebody is holding a photo up to the phone camera - there might be ways of doing this, like using the various sensors in the phone to detect odd or incongruent behavior that doesn’t jive with what happens when somebody takes a selfie.

But I’m reminded of the trope in spy movies where the bad guys cut off the hand/finger/eyeball of a guard and hold it up to a scanner to gain access to the secret facility. I would not at all be surprised if this system were vulnerable to something similar.

I have about as little trust in the government as is possible, but even I have enough trust to believe that they would not employ an ID verification system that could be subverted by social media photos.

I wish my taxes were simple enough for this to be a concern for me.

I'm a Turbo Tax guy myself. I've done my taxes with them for the past 25 years and I've already completed my 2024 taxes.

But to resolve this - what exactly do you think you’re uploading to these guys? Sure, it’s “biometric data,” but WHAT exactly?

It's exactly what it says. It's a "faceprint". It's geometric data about your face. There's a reason you have to use your mobile phone camera. Those front-facing cameras on your mobile phone are capable of capturing quite a but more than a simple photo. They are capable of capturing what ID.me calls "facial geometry". What ID.me is capturing is proprietary, but it's more than just a simple photo. They tell you that clearly in their terms of service.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It's exactly what it says. It's a "faceprint". It's geometric data about your face. There's a reason you have to use your mobile phone camera. Those front-facing cameras on your mobile phone are capable of capturing quite a but more than a simple photo. They are capable of capturing what ID.me calls "facial geometry". What ID.me is capturing is proprietary, but it's more than just a simple photo. They tell you that clearly in their terms of service.

“quite a bit more”

But what more? That’s what I’m asking.

Some phones have some kind of LIDAR or other distance-measurement system. So, okay, the app can make a 3D model of your face on the client side. A sophisticated enough algorithm can still do that from your Instagram feed. What else do you think they’re grabbing?

 

[probinson]

“quite a bit more”

But what more? That’s what I’m asking.

Some phones have some kind of LIDAR or other distance-measurement system. So, okay, the app can make a 3D model of your face on the client side.

"A 3D model of your face" is "quite a bit more" than a simple photo, wouldn't you agree?

A sophisticated enough algorithm can still do that from your Instagram feed.

Not even a detailed 3D print of someone's head was able to bypass FaceID on an iPhone, so I'm not sure what kind of "sophisticated algorithm" you think exists that can make a viable 3D model of your face from an Instagram feed.

 

[iluvatar5150]

"A 3D model of your face" is "quite a bit more" than a simple photo, wouldn't you agree?

Technically, sure. But as an issue of privacy... meh.

Not even a detailed 3D print of someone's head was able to bypass FaceID on an iPhone, so I'm not sure what kind of "sophisticated algorithm" you think exists that can make a viable 3D model of your face from an Instagram feed.

In that case (I assume, since there's a paywall), FaceID would grab some set of biometrics at the time the face scan was set up that are then not able to be mimicked by a model. In the case of ID.me, they're just matching it to what's detectable in your DL photo.

But that's a good example of what I was talking about - if you have FaceID set up, your biometric data is already out there, with Apple (or Google, as the case may be) doing whatever they want with it.

 

[wing2000]

You should be aware if DirectFile continues, you must use ID.me to verify your identify. This requires you to upload a picture of the front and back of your driver's license and take a "live selfie" with your phone's video camera to verify your identity with their proprietary facial recognition. No other tax preparation software that I am aware of requires any such verification.

If you're unfamiliar with ID.me, take a moment to Google it before you decide if you're comfortable having your biometric data stored to verify your identity to do something as simple as filing your taxes.

...which is not topic of the thread.

 

[wing2000]

....for clarity:

While Musk’s tweet may have intimated that the group of workers had been eliminated, an individual with knowledge of the IRS workforce said the Direct File program was still accepting tax returns. The individual spoke anonymously with The Associated Press because they were not authorized to talk to the press.

As of Monday evening, 18F’s website was still operational, as was the Direct File website. But the digital services agency’s X account was deleted.

https://apnews.com/article/irs-direct-file-musk-18f-6a4dc35a92f9f29c310721af53f58b16

 

[Always in His Presence]

That’s what I get for trusting others’ takes on things.

Guess we did the same thing, huh?

Is that what is contained in the new TSA required airline drivers' licenses?

What is a new TSA required airline drivers licence?

Do mean the real ID that makes you prove who you are in greater detail,

 

[iluvatar5150]

Guess we did the same thing, huh?

No, I paid attention to the substance of the article.

 

[probinson]

But that's a good example of what I was talking about - if you have FaceID set up, your biometric data is already out there, with Apple (or Google, as the case may be) doing whatever they want with it.

I don't know what Android or Google does, but your Face ID data is not "out there" if you use an iPhone. It is stored in the Secure Enclave on your device.

 

[essentialsaltes]

April 16, 2025

Trump administration plans to end the IRS Direct File program for free tax filing, AP sources say​

But the two people familiar with the decision to end Direct File said its future became clear when the IRS staff assigned to the program were told in mid-March to stop working on its development for the 2026 tax filing season.

 

[Fantine]

There are 100% free programs out there. IRS would only handle federal but the one I use does federal and state for free. Our returns are fairly complicated but it handles everything perfectly.
I think ending the free filing is bad because free filing encourages compliance. I've taught friends how to do it because when I see preparers bilking people with refund anticipation loans it makes my blood boil.
I can't advertise the program I use, but if you want a suggestion, you can PM me.
I'm kind of a consumer advice nerd.