Hi Torah life,
Personally, I see that you may have provided some facts- yet have also provided a unique twist to the Torah and what it means.
Of course I am coming from a Rabbinical Judaic view- so you are well within your right to see what I have to say as disgusting as well lol.
Quote:
Buccaneer,
The Elohim as found in the TaNaKh cannot be understood in our present culture and worldview.
R (response): Agreed.
QUOTE:
As such, we need to dig into the archeology of the time period.
R: This is partial.
I would say that we need to examine the culture of the Jews and how they used the language and applying it to G-D...The Language of Avinu Avraham from the land of Ur and the Language of the Land of the Canaanim was a Hebrew...even ancient Egyptian was a Hebrew.
I have met someone by the name "Ma'at Adamah" and I said that he has a Hebrew name- he responded with great voice saying that it was ancient egyptian and that he has dedicated himself to the study- so I use this for an example.
So I would rather trust the Jewish renderation of such words though the way the surrounding peoples may lend a slight help to understanding what the words themselves mean.
QUOTE:
Who was El to these ancient peoples of the west semitic region? According to archeology the ancient canaanite and surrounding peoples worshipped El. He was the supreme G-d, the head of the pantheon of gods,the Father, the Bull, the Creator of the world and the creator of the other gods and man.
R: According to what I have stated above, the way they viewed it lends help to rendering what the word itself meant and still means. But this is only for those not studied in Judaism- Those who are learned in Judaism ( not including the liberal factions) already know what these things mean- but those who are not- well it may be of help for them to recognize the authority of the Rabbis to engage in such study- such as the one that you have embarked on.
the Hebrew letter Aleph is the symbol for an ox- so it is understandable that the Judge(EL) of the Canaanites is a Bull.
and indeed he created the "Elohim" (psalms 82 reffering to the JUDGES [ELOHIM] that are made in his image [genesis]
Thus these ELOHIM that HaShem had created was Adam and Havah and their righteous sons.
QUOTE:
He had a consort Asherah and Baal was their son, Anat their daughter along with 70 or so others. Mot was the antithesis as is Satan. It was believed that when a decision was to made that all the gods would meet together then it is El who gives the final approval. Remember that we're in the mindset of ancient man. Throughout the TaNaKh, we become familiar with the names of these other dieties as they worshipped the sons of El and his consort instead of the father El.
R: Look at the first response
QUOTE:
Here are some biblical examples of the assembly if you don't believe me. Also the term "sons of El" literally meant that in this ancient timeframe.
R: No, it was not literal in the sense that you make it to be- However, as Luke points out in his "gospel"- "...Adam, the son of G-D."
Is a completely Pharisaic appliance of who the sons of G-D were. Adam was a Judge- and a Son of the Almighty Judge because he was in his image (he did all that HaShem wanted him to do as a Judge) So this was the way it was meant by the Jews, not the canaanites who shared the language- so to which ancient mind frame are you looking to recieve and have transmitted to you? I'd preffer the Jewish mind frame.
QUOTE:
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph God stands in the assembly of the mighty; He judges in the midst of the gods.
R: REMEMBER Psalms 82:6, to whom does G-D call the sons of G-D? Is it not the leaders of Yisrael as His Majesty Yeshuah had even spoke?
"Mizmore L'Asaf ELOHIM nitzav Ba'adat-il Bekerev Elohim Yisfot"
The Jerusalem Bible translates it in this manner.
"A psalm of Asaf. G-D stands in the congregation of G-D; he judges among the judges:"
This translation follows the grammar and wording provided in the Hebrew unlike the one that you have provided.
Again, this is speaking between G-D and his Judges (which include men and angels{Shliach Tziburim}-study this title)
QUOTE:
Job 1:6 And a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah. And Satan also came among them.
R: "Sons of G-D" is the tile for Leaders (Rabbis) and HaSatan was in the midst of them
QUOTE:
Job 2:1 And it happened that a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah. And Satan also came among them to present himself before Jehovah.
R: "a day..to present themselves"--- sounds like a Mo'ed to me. and the Rabbis, are NO DOUBT required to present themselves before G-d in his appointed times.
Quote:
Gen 6:2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.
R: Again- the SET APART MEN- Righteous men- Judges- the Rabbis of that time.
QUOTE:
1Ki 22:19 And Micaiah said, Therefore hear thou the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
Dont see what this has to do with the "Sons of G-D" and G-D Topic, this has to do with something else.
QUOTE:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning7225 God430(Elohim plural) created1254 (853) the heaven8064 and the earth.776 (Literally, in the beginning G-ds (plural)created the heaven and the earth)
R: You sound like the Sadducees that presented this arguement before the Pharisees.
You should study up on that and see how the heresy was made to nothing.
QUOTE:
Gen 1:26 And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
R: Image and Likeness, what does it mean?
I will give you some exerpts from my Homework from the Yeshiva I attend:
Q:
1. What does it mean that man was made in the image of the angels?
A:
I may be reading too much into it and reading wrongly, but I see that man is the manifestation of being sent. In other words Man is the actual image of what is sent as messengers/angels from HaShem. (?)
Q:
1. What does it mean that it was established for him (man) is the form of the image of His Creator?
Maybe that man is the humble manifestation of HaShem, we are but made from the red clay that is the earth and can easily be broken.
Q:
2. What does the command and subdue it implies?
It would mean to bring under dominion and authority of a man that is made in the Image and thought of HaShem and the Judges. To bring the world in the rule of the Son of G-D- Israel, the judge- the Rabbinate.
Hopefully this has given some insight.
QUOTE:
This may not be what you expected to learn, but as you fiercely study to understand the bible, you may not find what you're expecting. I hope this helps with the ancient understanding of Elohim.
Blessings,
torahlife
R: again, to which ancient thought are you recieving?
but Shalom u'brachot
